what track do you reckon RDJ spent the most time/effort on?

not necessarily what's your favorite or whats the best track, but objectively, which track sounds like the most thought and time went into it. i'm going to say ziggomatic. i still hear new details and tweaks and things done on each little drum hit every time i listen to it. the track is constantly evolving with each bar. it's fucking mental. the subtle toying with reverb. the timbre constantly changing. it's a huge expansive piece, yet sublimely cohesive. a book could be written about this song. lives have probably begun and ended over this song.

 

coincidentally, this actually IS the best track and my favorite track

 

conversely, a track like the elephant song took probably 15 mins to make, but it still pwns nonetheless

yeah probably Ziggomatic

im only saying ziggomatic cos he said it took him so long in that interview which is probably why your all saying ziggomatic.

i saw an interview where he said it took him a long time to do drukqs, never saw one that specifically said ziggo.

beetles

 

beetles

  felttipen said:

beetles

 

beetles

 

It took him 4 years to decide whether to say "night" or "the heat"

hum, yeah, ziggomatic could be it. it's like a scientific research about sound manipulation, harmony and rhythm.

pigeon street

I doubt it was Ziggomatic. I don't know what is this shit about it "evolving every bar". I bet it was one of his ambient tracks TBH, because then he was less experienced and ambient shit if you're doing it any good takes a lot of work. I diarrhea out breakcore tracks that never even loop, working on an ambient song is difficult by comparison.

Ziggomatic is the obvious one because he thanks us for listening to it. But what about the tracks on Analord 10 and 11 that approach druqks in complexity witthout the benefit of PC-based sequencing? There must be some serious labours of love going on there

i wonder if the drukqs titles actually indicate "versions", as in revisions, of every song. ie. it's called "ziggomatic v17" right? same with "cock v10" etc.

 

and yes i bet ziggomatic took fucking ages. to call that track "breakcore" seems cruel-- it's fucking layered mentalism with a zillion details and tight edits.

  Ascdi said:

and yes i bet ziggomatic took fucking ages. to call that track "breakcore" seems cruel-- it's fucking layered mentalism with a zillion details and tight edits.

The zillion details are all in your head. It's not the detail, it's the presentation. And tbh, it's more breakcore than my stuff, I was just using that as an oversimplification for my music that involves among other things distorted breaks, I don't feel like taking the time to explain it.

 

  ieafs said:

who knows man... i mean, sometimes you can spend ages working out what to leave out. effort doesn't always mean complexity. but i mean, how else would you know?

Yeah, exactly.

  HYPERFUKBOT said:

I doubt it was Ziggomatic. I don't know what is this shit about it "evolving every bar". I bet it was one of his ambient tracks TBH, because then he was less experienced and ambient shit if you're doing it any good takes a lot of work. I diarrhea out breakcore tracks that never even loop, working on an ambient song is difficult by comparison.

 

listen to the percussion. with almost every bar, a new palette of percussion and timbre is introduced, rearranged, with bits of it transitioning from the last loop and feeding into the next loop. accents, delays, distortions, reverb tweaks are all applied every time around. and not arbitrarliy, like your diarrhea, because they all sound fucking ACE. that's the evolution i'm talking about. sure you can slop together a bunch of random sounds and call it breakcore ( :laughing: ) but this track clearly demonstrates an overall cohesion where you can tell he had a big picture in mind. breakcore, or more specifically your diarrhead out breakcore, would sound hilarious beside the obvious intricacies displayed in ziggo's beat programming. the melody even evolves. granted it's not his most brilliant melody bit it works with the track and sort of lets the drum programming do the talking. it meanders around until it seems to have a point at the end when everything comes together.

 

yeah interesting point about ambient. i would say in my limited experience those are more hit and miss. you could get lucky with a good sound and make a solid ambient track pretty swiftly, or you could spend ages figuring out "what to leave out" as ieafs put it (good point ieafs). problem with ambient is if you do spend years and years tweaking sounds no one will ever notice, so you really do have to have the passion to recreate whatever vision you have, for yourself. so where's the incentive to spend all your time on that? though i believe RDJ would be uncompromising enough to do it.

 

 

  αnalogue ψings said:

Ziggomatic is the obvious one because he thanks us for listening to it. But what about the tracks on Analord 10 and 11 that approach druqks in complexity witthout the benefit of PC-based sequencing? There must be some serious labours of love going on there

 

i agree. but at the same time he seems to be quite apt with handling analogue equpiment and sequencing. perhaps an early track, or like you said, something off 10. i like that thinking, either track off 10 seems mental enough, i wouldnt bet against those taking some serious time.

 

  Ascdi said:

i wonder if the drukqs titles actually indicate "versions", as in revisions, of every song. ie. it's called "ziggomatic v17" right? same with "cock v10" etc.

 

i reckon that might be as the song progresses, each version is renamed so that backup earlier versions before something major was applied are easy to keep track of. this is how i do my tracks. so cock v3 might be a version of the track before melody was ever even considered or added, or if the melody came first, before drums were added. that sort of thing.

I apologize, I may have made it sound like I think that I make better music then RDJ. That's not the case at all. I'm just saying that my stuff is more complex, saying that he put this huge amount of work into it is inaccurate IMHO.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

listen to the percussion. with almost every bar, a new palette of percussion and timbre is introduced, rearranged, with bits of it transitioning from the last loop and feeding into the next loop. accents, delays, distortions, reverb tweaks are all applied every time around.

I do this in my music. I don't hear this in Richard's.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

and not arbitrarliy, like your diarrhea, because they all sound fucking ACE. that's the evolution i'm talking about. sure you can slop together a bunch of random sounds and call it breakcore ( :laughing: ) but this track clearly demonstrates an overall cohesion where you can tell he had a big picture in mind.

You've never even heard my shit, so shut the fuck up about it. I don't take kindly to people insulting my stuff. I don't have to think about a "big picture", because the picture naturally flows into place, I don't imagine it ahead of time. Maybe you have issues where you don't have natural musical flow, but that's your problem.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

the melody even evolves. granted it's not his most brilliant melody bit it works with the track and sort of lets the drum programming do the talking. it meanders around until it seems to have a point at the end when everything comes together.

Once again, you've never heard any of my shit. When I said no repetition, I mean about the melodies also.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

yeah interesting point about ambient. i would say in my limited experience those are more hit and miss. you could get lucky with a good sound and make a solid ambient track pretty swiftly, or you could spend ages figuring out "what to leave out" as ieafs put it (good point ieafs). problem with ambient is if you do spend years and years tweaking sounds no one will ever notice, so you really do have to have the passion to recreate whatever vision you have, for yourself. so where's the incentive to spend all your time on that? though i believe RDJ would be uncompromising enough to do it.

No one will ever notice? Try listening to SAWII again.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

  Ascdi said:

i wonder if the drukqs titles actually indicate "versions", as in revisions, of every song. ie. it's called "ziggomatic v17" right? same with "cock v10" etc.

 

i reckon that might be as the song progresses, each version is renamed so that backup earlier versions before something major was applied are easy to keep track of. this is how i do my tracks. so cock v3 might be a version of the track before melody was ever even considered or added, or if the melody came first, before drums were added. that sort of thing.

Sometimes I just add a version number on the end of a track title to fuck with people. I think "Cock v10" sounds better then just "Cock".

 

Another thing I have to mention is that experience really speeds up the music-creation process. I spent months working on a generative PD-based track complemented by postglitching/editing in an audio-editor, and it's still not finished. I have these "breakcore" tracks that are years beyond it in greatness that I did in a day at most.

Edited July 20, 2006 by HYPERFUKBOT

yeah, ziggomatic. the breaker for me is the things like the NESlike noises, and suchlike . i would never have thought have introducing those... i reckon it took a LOT of obsessive listening, over and over and over, in order for rich to figure out what to do next... it's not the complexity that makes it amazing, it's the flow - where to take the track next. we all know rich can do complex... it's the way that everything fits liek a 1000000 piece jigsaw puzzle that makes this track so damn good.

 

he has acknowledged himself in an interview that drukqs was his most time-intensive project, though what interview it was eludes me

 

even my mum (god help her, she's fuckin sick of having her ears bombarded with drill) had to acknowledge 'wow, that must have taken a lot of work'

Edited July 20, 2006 by kaini

girlboy

I have no idea which song titles go with which songs on Druqs, but you've got me aching to relisten to this track. I'll do that and then maybe come back and have an opinion about it. I like this thread topic.

I don't see why a good ambient track would take more time than a good drill 'n' bass track, since you just need to work out a good concept and go with it in that case. The actual programming doesn't take much time in an ambient track, whereas with some drill 'n' bass stuff the track would take hours and hours even if you knew exactly what you were going to do with it in advance. I've only done a few ambient tracks that I like, but none of them took nearly as long as any of my drum intensive pieces.

Also I get the impression that RDJ doesn't have the patience to spend a lot of time on his stuff, unless it absolutely requires it (like a drill 'n' bass track with a thousand little edits). As for the v432 track titles, I think he's probably just being facetious.

 

It's Ziggurat time!

Hmmm, it's a tough call. Ziggomatic's definitely up there. My favorite parts are the groove switch up at the 5 minute mark and the wonderful melodies that take over at the end. I really like his endings on most of the songs off this album.

 

omgyja-switch is much shorter but at least as intricately detailed. Ziggomatic probably took longer because it is longer.

 

Considering how much experience RDJ has with beat programming, I think it's pretty safe to say that he'd put less effort into such complex tracks than most people on this board would on tracks of equal or greater complexity... but I think I'm going to stay out of that dispute above

  ieafs said:

wait, so we're meant to take your word

Buy my album when it comes out on En:peg Digital.

 

  ieafs said:

that your music is is far more complex

Not my non-"breakcore" stuff that I used to work on.

 

  ieafs said:

that anything on 'drukqs'

Did I say that? I believe I only was referring to Ziggomatic.

 

  ieafs said:

and that you spent much more effort in making music than RDJ.

I doubt this. I simply said that in comparison to doing ambient stuff, "breakcore" stuff is easy for ME, I made an assumption that perhaps it's the same for Richard.

 

Gwarek 2, for example, is certainly up there in amount of work. I think that piece is an example where you can definitely hear that he's put LOTS of work into it.

 

PS. Make sure to read my post twice this time before you respond, so you don't make absurd accusations again.

double post. why the hell is WATMM so slow as of late?

Edited July 20, 2006 by HYPERFUKBOT

  HYPERFUKBOT said:

  Death and Taxes said:

listen to the percussion. with almost every bar, a new palette of percussion and timbre is introduced, rearranged, with bits of it transitioning from the last loop and feeding into the next loop. accents, delays, distortions, reverb tweaks are all applied every time around.

I do this in my music. I don't hear this in Richard's.

 

then something is wrong with your ears, because it's right there in ziggy. it's that simple. new palette of percussion with almost every bar? check. accents, delays, distortions, reverb tweaks? yes they are there too. :undecided:

 

  Quote

You've never even heard my shit, so shut the fuck up about it. I don't take kindly to people insulting my stuff. I don't have to think about a "big picture", because the picture naturally flows into place, I don't imagine it ahead of time. Maybe you have issues where you don't have natural musical flow, but that's your problem.

dont be so defensive mate, we are talking about the hypothetical diahrrea breakcore YOU claimed you could diahrrea out of your arse in your first post, nothing more nothing less. i don't really care about the music you put effort into. regardless, i actually have heard whatever "shit" you've posted in ekt over the years

 

if your only form of rhetoric for arguing a point is going to be yapping swears at me, then please don't bother, i'm too old to care. use your brain mate and take into context what you've already said. i aint got nothing personal with anyone on here.

 

 

 

  Quote

No one will ever notice? Try listening to SAWII again.

 

okay i just went back and listened to the whole thing, and I still don't know definitively whether the tracks took ages or minutes to make. i wonder what variables could possibly contribute to such ambiguity? i will use one of your own comments in the same post you just made to support my case

 

  Quote

Another thing I have to mention is that experience really speeds up the music-creation process. I spent months working on a generative PD-based track complemented by postglitching/editing in an audio-editor, and it's still not finished. I have these "breakcore" tracks that are years beyond it in greatness that I did in a day at most.

granted it's not ambient music you're speaking of specifically, but i believe your point is valid and can be applied towards ambient production. line up your "breakcore" tracks that are years beyond your generative PD-based track. is anyone going to notice how many months you spent on either track?

 

 

 

  Quote

Sometimes I just add a version number on the end of a track title to fuck with people. I think "Cock v10" sounds better then just "Cock".

 

why does it sound better? are you subscribing to "electronic music convention?" i think the convention was borne from practicality. perhaps you're illustrating the difference between an innovator and immitator?

Edited July 20, 2006 by Death and Taxes

  HYPERFUKBOT said:

PS. Make sure to read my post twice this time before you respond, so you don't make absurd accusations again.

 

yes please take your own advice into consideration when you read my posts too, HYPERFUKBOT. though the only absurd thing here is your use of the word "absurd"

 

you really do live up to your name! how'd you get it anyway?

  Death and Taxes said:

then something is wrong with your ears, because it's right there in ziggy. it's that simple. new palette of percussion with almost every bar? check. accents, delays, distortions, reverb tweaks? yes they are there too. :undecided:

I really don't hear it.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

i don't really care about the music you put effort into. regardless, i actually have heard whatever "shit" you've posted in ekt over the years

Wrong, I haven't posted any of the stuff in question in EKT. Over the years... let's see, that's like a total of what, 9 tracks? The most recent being some time in January (not counting the generative noise music thing, but that's intentionally shit).

 

  Death and Taxes said:

if your only form of rhetoric for arguing a point is going to be yapping swears at me, then please don't bother, i'm too old to care. use your brain mate and take into context what you've already said. i aint got nothing personal with anyone on here.

If that's all you see, then you must have some kind of selective reading abilities.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

okay i just went back and listened to the whole thing, and I still don't know definitively whether the tracks took ages or minutes to make. i wonder what variables could possibly contribute to such ambiguity? i will use one of your own comments in the same post you just made to support my case

  Death and Taxes said:

then something is wrong with your ears, because it's right there

 

 

 

  Death and Taxes said:

granted it's not ambient music you're speaking of specifically, but i believe your point is valid and can be applied towards ambient production. line up your "breakcore" tracks that are years beyond your generative PD-based track. is anyone going to notice how many months you spent on either track?

Maybe, maybe not.

 

  Death and Taxes said:

why does it sound better? are you subscribing to "electronic music convention?" i think the convention was borne from practicality. perhaps you're illustrating the difference between an innovator and immitator?

Not really. Cock just sounds like Cock. Adding a version number adds this technological sound to it, like some kind of bizzarre bionic cock ready to penetrate some robot bitches. The same applies to anything. It's a different effect with a different track title.

Edited July 20, 2006 by HYPERFUKBOT

:laughing: ok

The truth is, you shouldn't be making judgements on my current musical abilities based on a single 0:47 long thing I made 2 years ago.