Fractal Beats

so how do you go on about this?

been getting into fractals recently and i know there are some programs to make algorythmic music, but how would i do this on a standard sequencer?

im intrested in makin the rythms myself, not telling the computer how to make em...

discuss

:alien:

if i'm not mistaken you loop stuff at 2x, 4x 1/2 1/4 etc speeds

self-similarity is simple to program, you've probably already written some 'self-similar' structures in your trcks.. however, if you want to implement, say, the mandelbrot set in your track, you first should have an idea what EXACTLY you want to do with it - to what specific elements of your track you want to apply the fractal properties.. here is a 'pseudocode' example of how to implement a mandelbrot set in a graphical fashion, you can use it to calculate each iteration of the set & map the results to the arrangement of your track for example:

{

x = x0 = x co-ordinate of pixel

y = y0 = y co-ordinate of pixel

x2 = x*x

y2 = y*y

iteration = 0

maxiteration = 1000

while ( x2 + y2 < (2*2) AND iteration < maxiteration ) {

y = 2*x*y + y0

x = x2 - y2 + x0

x2 = x*x

y2 = y*y

iteration = iteration + 1

}

if ( iteration == maxiteration )

colour = black

else

colour = iteration

}

Also, saying that you want to tell the computer what to do, and not have it just run some instructions, is counter to wanting fractals. By definition, a fractal will be a chaotic evolving system without your input.

I have several Nord Modular patches at my home PC that use fractals, you could pretty easily port them into Reaktor with a bit of know-how. Actually, I could port them into Reaktor too if you'd like (and/or have Reaktor!).

Using feedback..... Try some feedback things, senderella,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BOOBS

Here's a screencap of two fractals playing off one another on my micro modular:

I think i need to know whats going on here. Sounds important. Explain.

  TooMuchLush said:

I think i need to know whats going on here. Sounds important. Explain.

you're confusing "important" with "boring"

maybe you're right winkleludd, but i'd like to hear more about/of/by TenFingersTenToes' nord modular patch - care to elaborate (no, not you winkleludd)?

Well, Im at work right now, so itll be about 12 hours before Ill be able to post some sound examples.

The gist of the patch above is that it takes a set Value of Z and Y (64 and 55 I beleive in the example there). Then using multiplication modules, subtracts Z^2 from Z^3, then adds C (which is just the value of a sine wave LFO, and thus can be negative), then adds the resulting number back into the value of Z. This is just a really simple fractal equation.

The logic processing there is just to avoid droning. It compares the resulting output of the (Z^3) - (Z^2) + C or (Y^3) - (Y^2) + D equation to an arbitrary value, then if both of those pas the comparison (are greater than), then it opens the AHD envelopes.

Also, the result the equation goes to a simple note scalor. The values for the note scalor represent half steps, and the values are +/-.

Ill post some sound examples later today. I also have some more complex ones, this is actually very basic as far as these go.

Also also, this stuff can be pretty boring. Its fun in an academic sort of way, but at the end of the day, you're listening to mostly random blips and blops (random is the sense of the term that exemplifies just how NOT random a Venetian Snares drum pattern is, no matter how many people protest to the contrary), so it can become very boring very quickly, especially if you after something really musically worthwhile.

hey! i forgot all about this thread....good to find it again

thanx for all the info...and id like to hear that patch in action too!

Also also also, I recently got a copy of Reaktor 5, so I can turn this or something like it into a Reaktor patch if anyone is interested.....

Might take me a little bit cuz Im still getting used to Reaktors weird panel creation thing and something that Im giving to someone else I like to look pretty and documented and all that.

i am interested!

i have reaktor 5 too, still havent used it much but i hope to sit down for a few months and work on it

fruity loops patch???

:( lol.

Hmm sorry, don't think it would work in FL.

But seriously, the output from this stuff is not as awesome as the math or explanation involved makes it out to be. Youll hear when I post sound examples later. To be honest, LFO's make a much more musical and interesting iterative engine for algorthmic music (for an exmaple of THAT, check out: http://forum.watmm.com/index.php?showtopic=11605 -- note how boring THAT is, and then realize that this stuff is alot moreso).

Okie, here you guys go.... tried to make it as absolutely musical as possible.

If, after enduring 2 minutes of that, you're really still hip t the fractal tip, Ill make it into a Reaktor 5 patch for you all to share and enjoy...

fractal1.mp3Fetching info...

  ten fingers ten toes said:

Well, Im at work right now, so itll be about 12 hours before Ill be able to post some sound examples.

 

The gist of the patch above is that it takes a set Value of Z and Y (64 and 55 I beleive in the example there). Then using multiplication modules, subtracts Z^2 from Z^3, then adds C (which is just the value of a sine wave LFO, and thus can be negative), then adds the resulting number back into the value of Z. This is just a really simple fractal equation.

 

The logic processing there is just to avoid droning. It compares the resulting output of the (Z^3) - (Z^2) + C or (Y^3) - (Y^2) + D equation to an arbitrary value, then if both of those pas the comparison (are greater than), then it opens the AHD envelopes.

 

Also, the result the equation goes to a simple note scalor. The values for the note scalor represent half steps, and the values are +/-.

 

Ill post some sound examples later today. I also have some more complex ones, this is actually very basic as far as these go.

 

Also also, this stuff can be pretty boring. Its fun in an academic sort of way, but at the end of the day, you're listening to mostly random blips and blops (random is the sense of the term that exemplifies just how NOT random a Venetian Snares drum pattern is, no matter how many people protest to the contrary), so it can become very boring very quickly, especially if you after something really musically worthwhile.

this is possible in FL, it's a lot more powerful software than people give credit thanks to the builtin plugs like the formula controller.

but yes, there are much better, and easier ways of making algorithmic music.

Where's the soul? That's like letting a random word generator write a screenplay.

I don't think anyone claimed that fractal music has soul.

Touche.

Well yah, I kinda mentioned that its fun in an academic sort of way but when you get down to it its really just a bunch of probability being played out to you. If you're a math geek though, it can be fun....

Are there ways to load samples and have them algorithmicly generated? ( ie, put in chopped bits and have them spat out)

I know max/msp can do something of the sort. I dont work with that. Other methods?

  ten fingers ten toes said:

Well yah, I kinda mentioned that its fun in an academic sort of way but when you get down to it its really just a bunch of probability being played out to you. If you're a math geek though, it can be fun....

For me its like looking at a visual fractal, like the Mandelbrot set. I enjoy messing with the color setup and zooming in indefinately(after a bowl or five). Its interesting, but I wouldn't confuse it with Rembrandt or anything.

I guess one thing to do with fractal beats is to record one going for some time, and then going back and sampling a measure here or there of interesting beats. Then you just have to debate the merits of using a sample of a beat you didn't directly generate, which to me is like sampling the amen break.

I guess one thing to do with fractal beats is to record one going for some time, and then going back and sampling a measure here or there of interesting beats.

How do you generate it to go in the first place?

cool thread