Bass Harmonics

Hey, I dont know if you need to have a really good bass to be able master harmonics, but I can't seem to grasp them properly. Does anyone know where I could get a tab for Iambic 9 Poetry, or at least some tips on playing harmonics (I can manage them on a few frets, but others seem elusive).

Cheers. Also, anyone in the Aberdeen area play the glockenspiel? Also, anyone know if there's a possibility of brain haemorrhaging/strokes from drinking coffee, I can feel the blood vessels popping...

you can do the harmonics at the 12th, 7th, and maybe 5th without much problems. for others you'll need to use an artificial harmonic. ie to do a harmonic at the 14th fret, place your left hand on the second fret, and sort of pinch the string at the 14th fret. takes a while to get the hang of.

Cool cheers, I found a few different versions of the tab so I'll just give it all a go.

pretty much any one who isn't a dumbass can play a glockenspiel I'd think. Pretty much all keyboard percussions are easy, if you're doing harder stuff, you just have to practice technique a little, it's not that hard.

Yeah but getting a glockenspiel is a different matter. Sure, I could do it in FL, but that would just be... shit.

So many of those tabs I found were shoddy btw. As far as Im aware Iambic 9 harmonics are as follows (for anyone thats interested...)

G ---------------5-----------------------------3.2----------5-------------------------

D -5----4--3.2-----4---5----------------------------4-----------4------5--------7---

A ----------------------------5------4---5--------------------------------------------7

E --------------------------------5-----------------------------------------------------

Though thats from memory, I dont have my bass with me. It's something like that. Then there are the normal bass notes, which i guess he plays at the same time (though it might be recorded over too), neither of which i am capable of doing at the moment.

  Wounded Kitez said:

Yeah but getting a glockenspiel is a different matter. Sure, I could do it in FL, but that would just be... shit.

 

So many of those tabs I found were shoddy btw. As far as Im aware Iambic 9 harmonics are as follows (for anyone thats interested...)

 

G ---------------5-----------------------------3.2----------5-------------------------

D -5----4--3.2-----4---5----------------------------4-----------4------5--------7---

A ----------------------------5------4---5--------------------------------------------7

E --------------------------------5-----------------------------------------------------

 

Though thats from memory, I dont have my bass with me. It's something like that. Then there are the normal bass notes, which i guess he plays at the same time (though it might be recorded over too), neither of which i am capable of doing at the moment.

Bare in mind that this is tab for a 4 string bass. Its seems quite likely that Iambic 9 would've been played on a 6 string to allow the low notes underneath. I might try n figure this out on my guitar tomorrow.

i think you can find the harmonies if you can hear the intervals.

reproducing harmonies you are hearing is like solving the puzzle once

you find one tone.

i guess he played "I.P. 9" on 6 string bass. that cyclic low bass is

like basso continuo with guitar melodies playing on

the top - and I am sure those are flageolet tones.

I don't have a guitar but midi file or notes would be

enough.

you can always put those 8 low bass tones on loop and

play normal and flageolet tones untill you get them right.

flageolet is not hard to get. tip: on E/A/D/G string,

put the top of your finger gently on/near the 2., 3. or 4. fret ( 3. fret flageolet is +octava of string you are playing on)

,don't PRESS, and you should get higer tone than when normally playing...

Glockenspeils are like 100$

i want a marimba

  kaini said:

i want a marimba

I want a Marimba and a Vibe both.

I did PIT in my school's marching band for 2 years, just so I could play with the marimbas and vibes.

  Glass Plate said:

Glockenspeils are like 100$

Yeah I'm like $3000 dollars away from being able to afford one and still be in a stable financial situation...

As for the bass stuff, cheers. I'll bear all that in mind. I don't really understand why I can't just work it out by playing the bass notes and converting it to harmonics though, that's how I worked that out. Enlighten me.

You can work it out by playing the notes, but I guess it's more

fun to figure it out with your ears rather than by playing notes.

It gives you more space to experiment.

if you can sing that melody at the begining of Iambic poetry 9,

just find the first tone in the melody on your bass (in tune with original)

and you find other tones by the same principle. Sing the tone, find it on

the bass and go to another. Than play the whole phrase,repeat, sentence, etc.

You may notice that that low bass is repeating, so you can learn to play that first,

then concentrate only on the melody on the top. And after you get it right,

meaning you understand which tones you have to play (you can mistake

but you must know which is the next tone in the phrase),you can

find their harmony with that low bass tone/s.

That's the way I do it, but I am relying more on my ears than the notes.

It's musical logic of combining intervals, I guess. When I hear a melody, I hear

separate acords, intervals, consonant or disonant, small "sexta" or big "decima".

I hear the distances between the tones beacuse I know what kinds of intervals

or acords there are, and most important, how they sound.

  naos said:

You can work it out by playing the notes, but I guess it's more

fun to figure it out with your ears rather than by playing notes.

It gives you more space to experiment.

 

if you can sing that melody at the begining of Iambic poetry 9,

just find the first tone in the melody on your bass (in tune with original)

and you find other tones by the same principle. Sing the tone, find it on

the bass and go to another. Than play the whole phrase,repeat, sentence, etc.

 

You may notice that that low bass is repeating, so you can learn to play that first,

then concentrate only on the melody on the top. And after you get it right,

meaning you understand which tones you have to play (you can mistake

but you must know which is the next tone in the phrase),you can

find their harmony with that low bass tone/s.

 

That's the way I do it, but I am relying more on my ears than the notes.

It's musical logic of combining intervals, I guess. When I hear a melody, I hear

separate acords, intervals, consonant or disonant, small "sexta" or big "decima".

I hear the distances between the tones beacuse I know what kinds of intervals

or acords there are, and most important, how they sound.

yeah, you're so awesome, congratulations you win 50 internets.

hey now, mr. derelic7, was that sarcasm?

because, in some of the higher level theory courses i took, the homework was precisely like logic puzzles! ol' j. j. fux and his counterpoint exercises... i loved 'em. i'm a computer nerd, and i never expected to be doing stuff that mathematical and intellectually satisfying in a music class... was just like solving equations, except about ten times as open ended!

yeah, you're so awesome, congratulations you win 50 internets.

I guess some people don't find it dull, but jeah,

i've exaggerated. It's just because I was doing it

myself.

Iambic 9 can easily be played on a 4 string, here is my transcription of the main theme...

EDIT - oh yeah, you should read the 3's as 3+, the harmonic is at its best about 1/4 of the way between 3rd and 4th fret

iambic_9_bitmap.bmpFetching info...

  ieafs said:

harmonics usually work best directly above the actual fret though - at least on most guitars/basses - because harmonically that's the exact place for that overtone to occur. but i see what you mean though... sometimes there's more of a sweet spot a little bit off.

it's a result of a modern tempered scale vs just intonation, innit?

i thought if the harmonics weren't exactly above the frets, the guitar isn't set up properly? the little screws at the bridge?

  ieafs said:

  welcome to the machine said:

Iambic 9 can easily be played on a 4 string, here is my transcription of the main theme...

 

 

EDIT - oh yeah, you should read the 3's as 3+, the harmonic is at its best about 1/4 of the way between 3rd and 4th fret

that sounds exactly right... i don't have the CD playing to compare, but just playing in on guitar it sounds right to me

 

harmonics usually work best directly above the actual fret though - at least on most guitars/basses - because harmonically that's the exact place for that overtone to occur. but i see what you mean though... sometimes there's more of a sweet spot a little bit off.

well, you see harmonics occur at nodes in the string, , the one at 12 cuts the string directly in half which is why you get a harmonic an octave above, the 5th fret harmonic is cutting 1/4 of the length off the string, the 4th fret is cutting 1/5 of the length of the string and so on. thats why we get harmonics at these points.

below the 4th fret however, you can no longer cut the string evenly above a fret, the divisions become much smaller (exponentially so) so there is no longer a nice harmonic directly above the fret! below the third there is actually 3 or 4 in between each fret (but only a couple you could realistically use) , thats why they had to add the symbols 3+ 2++ etc to direct you where the actual harmonic is played!

here is a list of where you can find the main harmonics,

on 2 there is the tone of that fret, 1/3 of a fret up from 2 is the b7 of the 2nd fret, 2/3 up from the 2nd is the tone of the 3rd fret on the string below it, just past 3rd is the 3rd of the 3rd fret, 4th is the tone of the 4th fret, 5th fret holds the 5th of that fret, 6th fret just about holds the 3rd of that fret, 7th fret - same tone, 9th holds the 5th of that fret, 12th has the tone of that fret, and they repeat past that. there are more below the second, but they get very close. there are also more in between but they are less defined.

those of you who aren't quite getting it make sure you are not pressing down on the string, just touch it so that its cut off at a node, try boosting you're upper mids on you're amp, and give a bit of bias towards the bridge pickup if you have two. that said, i can get all these un-amped so they are definately there and very clear! just give it time, its a delicate skill! but well worth learning, as it can teach you a delicate-ness with the strings that can improve you're feel on the bass with all styles of playing!

  kaini said:

it's a result of a modern tempered scale vs just intonation, innit?

nah not quite, its to do with how a string vibrates along its length, harmonics found on a vibrating string already follow the rules of equal temperament because the physics of them is to do with length. the intervals are naturally cut at geometrically equal points! (which is what equal temperament is based on, in a way.. :) :confused: )

  modey said:

i thought if the harmonics weren't exactly above the frets, the guitar isn't set up properly? the little screws at the bridge?

yeah you are right that you use the 12th fret harmonic to measure intonation as the harmonic occurs when the string is stopped exactly in half. if the 12th fret doesn't lie exactly at the half way mark of the string then the note found there will be different to the harmonic. what you do is use a good tuner and finely change the string length untill the harmonic matches exactly with the fretted note!

  welcome to the machine said:

yeah you are right that you use the 12th fret harmonic to measure intonation as the harmonic occurs when the string is stopped exactly in half. if the 12th fret doesn't lie exactly at the half way mark of the string then the note found there will be different to the harmonic. what you do is use a good tuner and finely change the string length untill the harmonic matches exactly with the fretted note!

it's so hard to do on a fretless bass! i'm trying to get the note positions set up properly so that they are the same on each string.

^^ yeah tell me about it, you should try it on the double bass, now THATS a bastard, needless to say i leave that one to the pros!

  welcome to the machine said:

  kaini said:

it's a result of a modern tempered scale vs just intonation, innit?

 

nah not quite, its to do with how a string vibrates along its length, harmonics found on a vibrating string already follow the rules of equal temperament because the physics of them is to do with length. the intervals are naturally cut at geometrically equal points! (which is what equal temperament is based on, in a way.. :) :confused: )

well then it sort of is (i admit i'm splitting hairs here!)

the fretboard on a bass or a guitar is tuned to a tempered scale; in a mathematically pure tuning (the one that harmonics obey), some chords or intervals that should be consonant are dissonant. by my understanding, the tempered scale is also the reason some harmonics don't coincide with frets or exact divisions of them - if the fretboard was arranged on a logarithmic scale, you'd have a really dissonant guitar with loads of nice regular harmonics.

it's also noticable if you tune a guitar by matching fifth and seventh harmonics on adjacent strings. it's just a little bit off.

  kaini said:

  welcome to the machine said:

  kaini said:

it's a result of a modern tempered scale vs just intonation, innit?

 

nah not quite, its to do with how a string vibrates along its length, harmonics found on a vibrating string already follow the rules of equal temperament because the physics of them is to do with length. the intervals are naturally cut at geometrically equal points! (which is what equal temperament is based on, in a way.. :) :confused: )

 

well then it sort of is (i admit i'm splitting hairs here!)

 

the fretboard on a bass or a guitar is tuned to a tempered scale; in a mathematically pure tuning (the one that harmonics obey), some chords or intervals that should be consonant are dissonant. by my understanding, the tempered scale is also the reason some harmonics don't coincide with frets or exact divisions of them - if the fretboard was arranged on a logarithmic scale, you'd have a really dissonant guitar with loads of nice regular harmonics.

 

it's also noticeable if you tune a guitar by matching fifth and seventh harmonics on adjacent strings. it's just a little bit off.

hmm, yeah I see what you mean although I don't pretend to understand fully the implications of equal temperement compared to a mathematical system when placed to a guitar.

surely the tempered scale is basically logarithmic though? as in its designed so all intervals balance and an octave of a given note is identical to twice the original note (unlike in just intonation). and if so then harmonics would almost exactly coincide with the frets, allot closer than just intonation anyway?..

anyway, this may explain why all harmonics are slightly off, but the reason you get three or four harmonics per fret down the bottom is definitely not a product of this, 3+ is different to 3 not because if a difference in tuning methods, but because as you go further down the strong nodes become closer together due to the laws of oscillating strings!

interesting stuff though, i'm definitely going to look into it further.

o