A Monitor Question

I've been in the market for a decent pair of reference monitors lately and I keep coming across the Yamaha NS-10M Studio. I've seen them in several studios before and now I've come across a good deal online for a pair of them. I havent had a chance to listen to them in person. My question is this - does anyone have experience with these monitors? How do they sound? Are they worth buying for under $500? How do they compare to more modern monitors and is there anything I should keep my eye out for when buying some?

I'd appreciate any help you guys could give me. Thanks, again.

they are great for mixing in some ways...their frequency response is more even than a normal home stereo, but it still doesn't shine like a pair of mackie or adam monitors... but if the price is right (which it sounds like) it is a pretty good deal. these monitors used to be pretty much standard in every studio just because it was fairly close to what an average consumer would be listening to, just with a much more flat response...

i have much experience with these monitors. They are considered the industry standard in record studio situations.

I personally would advise against getting them if you want your music to sound good quality and pleasurable.

the NS-10 speakers have been kind of adopted long after their original production by studio professionals who want a consistent reference.

You can pretty much assume that any mainstream recording studio you go into will have a suite with a pair of NS-10s for monitoring. This makes it very easy and convenient for a person who mixed in one studio to move their tracks over to another studio while keeping the sound almost exactly the same (due to the monitors)

They also are good for mixing music for shitty speakers. The golden rule is that if something sounds great in an NS-10, it will sound great in almost everything. The ns-10 have very poor low frequency response and very tinny mid-highs. In other words they pretty much sound like shit. For some reason though people consider this a plus. It also takes a great deal of getitng used to to come up with good sounding mixes using NS-10s for monitoring.

If you are looking for good quality monitors that are also accurate and a good representation of how your mix will sound in other speakers, i would go for something like the Tannoy Reveals or a modern brand of speakers. The ns-10s are only popular because of human herd mentality. They really are pure shite in my opinion.

in response to what the last poster said, look at the frequency response chart of an NS-10. You will see that indeed most current home stereo systems have much better frequency response. The NS-10s are not popular because of their "flat response".

here is a quote

"The people that hate this little speaker have several reasons for doing so. They say the speaker just doesn't sound good. They say it's too bright, especially in the upper mid frequencies. Actually, the NS10's have a 7dB peak around 1500Hz. Then, of course, there's the bass response problem. There isn't much there to work with."

i cant find a frequency response chart, but these speakers are not at all flat .

i think you can hate on the ns-10s only if you have the budget to hate on them. it's true that they don't sound that good, but it's also true that mixing well on them almost gaurantees a good mix elsewhere. they do take a bit to get used to, and bass response is not there - you will need a sub. however, compared to 15 dollar computer speakers, you will definitely get the separation and accuracy to get a studio-quality mix.

this may be apocryphal, but a studio owner told me that the wood used to make the earlier ns-10 cone has disappeared from the earth, and the cones are now made from a substitute material he didn't like as much. i've never had the chance to compare the 'new' and the 'old' ones or to find out if this is true. (this guy was also big into fake moon-landing stuff etc, so i haven't put a lot of effort into verifying it.)

edit: $500 for a new pair is a good deal. used ones are going cheaper on ebay.

  A/D said:

i think you can hate on the ns-10s only if you have the budget to hate on them. it's true that they don't sound that good, but it's also true that mixing well on them almost gaurantees a good mix elsewhere. they do take a bit to get used to, and bass response is not there - you will need a sub. however, compared to 15 dollar computer speakers, you will definitely get the separation and accuracy to get a studio-quality mix.

 

this may be apocryphal, but a studio owner told me that the wood used to make the earlier ns-10 cone has disappeared from the earth, and the cones are now made from a substitute material he didn't like as much. i've never had the chance to compare the 'new' and the 'old' ones or to find out if this is true. (this guy was also big into fake moon-landing stuff etc, so i haven't put a lot of effort into verifying it.)

 

edit: $500 for a new pair is a good deal. used ones are going cheaper on ebay.

i guess the reason i say "DONT BUY NS-10S THEY SOUND LIKE SHIT" is because for anyone not coming from a studio background/audio engineering training background, they would be much happier with an actual good sounding quality monitor by mackie, Tannoy, etc in the $500 range.

I understand well the reasons people like NS-10s, i can afford them, but that doesnt change my opinion that they sound EXTREMELY shitty. And to be perfectly honest ive heard multimedia computer setups with subwoofwers that sound much better than a pair of NS-10 speakers without a sub.

The biggest reason to get an NS-10 pair of speakers is for reference and moving back and forth between different studio locations. If you want them simply for accurate sound quality you might be satisfied. If you want them for GOOD & Pleasurable sound quality while at the same time as being accurate, you are in for an extreme disappointment.

i hate ns10s... if i could go back in time and shoot the guy who was about to invent them i would

if you have $300 -500 to spend on a pair of monitors i would recommend the Tannoy Reveals

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Reveal6/

But, if he's in the market for reference monitors, doesn't he understand that they might not sound good? By your own statement "If they sound good on NS-10's, theyll soun good on anything!". Isn't that the point then of geting reference monitors?

Don't most people with home studios have reference monitors and listening speakers and toggle between them?

Unless you're me, then you mix on a shit set of computer speakers, mumble about needing to get some studio monitors from time to time, and try to angle every "Post Pics of Your Studio" photo so that they don't show.

well, whatever monitors you mix on, your mix will essentially sound the opposite to, as you compensate

the problem with almost all newer monitors is the bass response - on mackies, it's so low, and rear ported, that you get chaotic dips and peaks of over 15db in the low end... not what you want from studio monitors

they're all tracking monitors really - low fatigue, maximum detail

for mix downs, even a studio with a £30,000 pair of questeds, will still tend to cross-reference on NS10's because you do know when a mix is balanced on them, and they're flat and limited enough in range not to show up too extreme room weaknesses

the problem with mackies and genelecs is the "produced" sound... with an enhanced bass and top-end, and a very clear upper mid, mixes have a tendancy to come out sounding small and sort of boxed in, as you don't feel you need to do so much work at the extremities... bob katz was saying, on mackies you can't really tell whether you need 1db of gain or 6 db's half the time - on NS10's you can tell when it's right to within a 1/5th of a db

i'd certainly get NS10's - there's a mod to fix the 1khz peak, but i'd leave it myself - it's a typically harsh region for many ppl - mixes off NS10's often sound smooth and slightly subdued because the 1-1.5khz is so carefully controlled

i really rate spirit abs 2's as well

oops...i was going from memory about the ns10s freq response (its been a little while since i used them in school) but yea....great to have if you make professional mixes on a day to day basis....not so great if you just need good monitors. also, i wouldnt say its that hard to here a difference in 1 db on genelecs or mackies etc etc, but they do make everything sound so sweet that you often don't bother perceiving the slight changes...this often comes apparent when using compressors...

Yamaha haven't made NS10s for years. Where exactly are you seeing them 'on a deal'?

They have replaced them (effectively) with their HS series.

Personally - for about the same money (ie cheap, but not too cheap) I'd always go for the Tannoy Active Reveals.

I can't stand NS10's. That might have something to do with my inability to get a decent sound out of them! But in general they just annoy the shit out me. Yeah if you only have a small budget the Tannoy's are decent deal.

yes to correct myself if the original poster wanted a reference monitor strictly for the purposes of making sure his mixes will sound good on other speakers than i would recommend getting the NS-10

on the other hand if the original poster is buying monitors for the first time, doesnt exclusively want them for reference and is expecting to get pleasurable good sounding results from his mixes in the studio while mixing, the NS-10s are pieces of trash and will sound like ass to him. If this poster has never heard NS-10s before he will be shockingly disappointed by how bad and tinny they sound.

a lot of people on here are acting like its some sort of rule that you have to switch back and forth while mixing to a pair of shit speakers VS a pair of huge genelcs or something. This is traditional studio practice, but its not necessary. I think you can get good results with a pair of balanced speakers with a not too bass heavy sub. Burn a cd of your mix bring it to a few systems like a boom box, car stereo, and home stereo setup.

  Quote

the problem with mackies and genelecs is the "produced" sound..

products.

  Quote

or mix downs, even a studio with a £30,000 pair of questeds, will still tend to cross-reference on NS10's because you do know when a mix is balanced on them, and they're flat and limited enough in range not to show up too extreme room weaknesses

To be able to tell a mix is balanced on an NS-10 takes some experience. Thats why i suggest the original poster not buy them unless he has had experience using them before.

oh i wouldn`t go for tannoy reveals

nowhere near enough top end

wouldn`t really call them studio monitors

they've got a really boxey sound - absolutely no transient detail

yamaha make the NS10m`s now, which are well worth

NS10`s often get compaired with expensive studio midfields - to be honest, next to most genelecs and mackies in the same price range, NS10`s sound comparable, and a balanced mix on NS10`s will always sound much better to experienced ears than the same on a pair of mackies

there's so few decent monitors sub £1,000

Adams, NS10`s, BM6a`s

and i still wouldn't use the Adams or BM`s unless i was spending at least as much again on acoustics and had a suitable room

  Wall Bird said:

I've been in the market for a decent pair of reference monitors lately and I keep coming across the Yamaha NS-10M Studio. I've seen them in several studios before and now I've come across a good deal online for a pair of them. I havent had a chance to listen to them in person. My question is this - does anyone have experience with these monitors? How do they sound? Are they worth buying for under $500? How do they compare to more modern monitors and is there anything I should keep my eye out for when buying some?

 

I'd appreciate any help you guys could give me. Thanks, again.

For a desktop musician i recommend the blue sky media desk