Ending a track.

I have alot of problems with ending my tracks. I have overused the fadeout technique. Any tips or suggestions? I have been trying to listen to the endings that other songs have. But haven't really grasped anything really.

I tend to end with either applause or fireworks samples

Tracks end when you're sick of working on them. If you mean the physical ending, there are several techniques, just listen to a lot of music.

Gradually working back the density of things is the most basic thing after the fadeout technique.

In the end it all depends on what you have to say really. You can do whatever you want. But get a sense of direction. Think of metaphores, that helps me sometimes.

Oftentimes it's good to go out with a bang where you build up to a climax and end it there.

A favorite of mine is to just let a single melody play once or twice after the climax of the track.

fade the drums out of the mix let your central melody line play for while

that's usually what i doo, but i'm not pro so whatever

it never ends

learn cadences and use them when possible

i don't know much about them but they've worked sometimes

Yeah, RJ quite often ends with cadences... makes me suspect he's studied music - but I could be wrong...

An authentic cadence is when the 2nd from last chord is a V (so in C major it's a G major, dominant 7th) and the last chord is a tonic (root chord, so C major).

Start as you Mean to Go On ends with an imperfect cadence I think - ending on a V chord... great effect, sounds less final

Yeah I don't have a clue what that means. I don't know much about music in that sense. I just kind of wing it. I will look into it though, thanks for all the suggestions.

i tell you it's worth learning... you can learn the basics of harmony, composition, counterpoint, etc... in about 2 days.

tiny sacrifice of time and the returns are worth 1000x what you put in

How did you learn the basics of all that in two days? From books?

  forlon said:

How did you learn the basics of all that in two days? From books?

I'd recommend Google.

Here's a page full of scales and chords worth studying: http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/vpc/piano_chords.htm

As for ending a track, I read somewhere that it's important to end with the main thing you want the listener to have stuck in his/her mind after the track. The main melody is a good idea, make it stick. Also good to bring out less apparent loop or something similar.

Shit man, the basics of harmony, composition, counterpoint is a little more then a bunch of scales. I had a book about this subject and it was of biblical proportions, I lost interest after the first 100 pages or so. It didn't even touch counterpoint until the last couple of chapters, and the book gave me the feeling that I really needed those 1000+ pages to get into counterpoint.

If there's some sort of compressed form of essential knowledge that encompasses all that mentioned above, I'd really like to know!

yeah there is... the thing is, if you study strict classical composition then there is a lot of information to absorb - you have to have a good knowledge of the history of music too... but that's also for writing fuges and modal counterpoint, which is far and beyond what you need to know, or at least what you'd consider "basics".

Understanding Harmony by Robert L Jacobs is a good guide... short book, goes right from the very basics of how scales and chords work through harmony and counterpoint within the first few chapters...

Jazz is even quicker to pick up

Best to have someone to show you ideally - If you can find a good piano or music teacher and just ask to be shown basic harmony and composition...

There's a good guide here: http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/personnel/Belkin/bk/

the harmony section is short and to the point, should tell you enough to grasp it... i wouldn't recommend trying to memorize any of it - it is boring unless applied - so best to work with an instrument as you learn

Thanks a lot! I already had the Belkin thing, but after I gave up on that big book I didn't really give it any attention.

  forlon said:

Shit man, the basics of harmony, composition, counterpoint is a little more then a bunch of scales. I had a book about this subject and it was of biblical proportions, I lost interest after the first 100 pages or so. It didn't even touch counterpoint until the last couple of chapters, and the book gave me the feeling that I really needed those 1000+ pages to get into counterpoint.

 

If there's some sort of compressed form of essential knowledge that encompasses all that mentioned above, I'd really like to know!

Of course it is but the basis of well established chords, scales, minor/major etc is probably among the first things one should learn.

I haven't studied much counterpoint, cadence and such, but honestly, music comes down to using your ears. Nevertheless I love learning about the mechanics behind music theory and will try to study it as thoroughly as possible. Thanks for the link Paulie!

  Paulie Walnuts said:

yeah there is... the thing is, if you study strict classical composition then there is a lot of information to absorb - you have to have a good knowledge of the history of music too... but that's also for writing fuges and modal counterpoint, which is far and beyond what you need to know, or at least what you'd consider "basics".

 

Understanding Harmony by Robert L Jacobs is a good guide... short book, goes right from the very basics of how scales and chords work through harmony and counterpoint within the first few chapters...

 

Jazz is even quicker to pick up

 

Best to have someone to show you ideally - If you can find a good piano or music teacher and just ask to be shown basic harmony and composition...

 

There's a good guide here: http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/personnel/Belkin/bk/

 

the harmony section is short and to the point, should tell you enough to grasp it... i wouldn't recommend trying to memorize any of it - it is boring unless applied - so best to work with an instrument as you learn

harmony and counterpoint are very advanced skills.

the basics... fair enough.. thirds and fifths.. cadences.. you can pick up quickly, but what an arrogant statement to make... the statement about jazz on top of this serves to compound this arrogance... jazz is more complex and variable than even baroque counterpoint.

although i'm probably wrong, you clearly know everything... well done.

:shade:

  Derelic7 said:

Of course it is but the basis of well established chords, scales, minor/major etc is probably among the first things one should learn.

 

I haven't studied much counterpoint, cadence and such, but honestly, music comes down to using your ears. Nevertheless I love learning about the mechanics behind music theory and will try to study it as thoroughly as possible. Thanks for the link Paulie!

Ahhh I see, yeah I agree on this. I don't want to get too deep into it, but it's definetly interesting to know what some of the techniques behind music are.

Checked your song 'Edge' btw, quality stuff!

wikipedia has some good infomation on all the musical stuff

check it out!

Yeah I love wikipedia. I guess I read about stuff and would kind of like an example though. Does any one know of a song or songs where I can hear a cadence?

I just know the things I have to work on are drums, ending and also I guess making my tunes more slick. Adding little things here and there to make it more interesting. But I always get stuck. I always make like the skeleton of a track but fail to give it skin, hair and a face.

Suggestions?

The most important thing for a piece of music is, in my opinion, the content. The framework is something you learn only on a basis of what you think you need. If you don't have an urge or idea it's hard to get somewhere.

I'm sure everyone has an urge to say something in this world, so it's not something you should worry about. It's just about getting it into focus.

You have to know what you want though. And to know what you want, you have to know the software you're using. You need to be able to fit your ideas into the system of the software. Making music is making abstractions, like talking in a way, but on another level of perception.

It's kind of a 'chicken or egg' story really.

Just keep on going with new songs, don't confuse experiments with real songs, and eventually you'll get where you want to go. The really hard part is to have focus. And it's also a matter of much effort you want to put into it.

...just have a bit wall of sound mogwaistylee

i also had serious problems finishing songs until i started making stuff via recording audio, now with a guitar you have several ways to ending a track, the best and simplest one is to just strum the first chord of the verse, end with all the instrument, that´s it - standard rock ending.

the fade-out of multiple layers it´s typical in electronic music and is the easiest thing in loop based music.. . in electronic music, the best thing imho is to just make an addittional part, based on the same melody of the song, for the ending. it yields the best result imho.

here, hope thiz helpz