VST LFO that syncs to tempo

I'm having good fun messing around with LFO on basses and stuff but the problem I have is that what syncs well on one note with a particular beat will sound out of sync if I play a different note. I've looked around for a VST which is just an LFO but haven't found anything. Or better still what's the best way to keep beats with heavy LFO all in sync with the master tempo? Cheers.

What kind of tempo based VST *doesn't* use tempo sync to host?

What package are you using? Are these samples you're taking about? Are you using Renoise or Abe?

while we're here, is there a VST plugin which will generate LFO-modulated CC channel output? with its own LFOs? and sync to tempo?

like, a bank of eight LFOs with standard timesync and waveshape, with fields like output to CC# whatever, range 30-100, CC level at LFO 0 point, intensity

i'd love a plugin like that. maybe i should write it, can't be that bad

  ten fingers ten toes said:

What kind of tempo based VST *doesn't* use tempo sync to host?

 

What package are you using? Are these samples you're taking about? Are you using Renoise or Abe?

Yeah, of course all VSTs use tempo sync to host but when one applies LFO that sync is lost. The sync only applies to notes but not additionally to LFO rate which when one plays different notes they will quickly sound out of sync with the main tempo (although technically the notes played are actually in sync). I'll post a sample to show you what I mean.

  Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD said:

while we're here, is there a VST plugin which will generate LFO-modulated CC channel output? with its own LFOs? and sync to tempo?

 

like, a bank of eight LFOs with standard timesync and waveshape, with fields like output to CC# whatever, range 30-100, CC level at LFO 0 point, intensity

 

 

i'd love a plugin like that. maybe i should write it, can't be that bad

Sounds like a good idea. I've been looking for one.

it sounds like you have keyboard tracking on. This basically speeds up/slows down the LFOs rate in a ratio to the note you are playing. for example.... lets say you are playing a C... and the LFO sounds like its doing 1/8th notes. If you play C an octave up, itll make the LFO sound like 1/16th notes. because an octave is a doubling pitch... so double the LFO and its twice as fast. And all the pitches between C and C one octave up, it will increase its speed in ratio of the divisions of the octave... because remember, and LFO is a low frequency OSCILLATOR.... same idea as an audio frequency oscillator, but slowed down... as you play up the keyboard, it increases the speed.

So, look around on your VST and see if there is a "keyboard tracking" or "pitch tracking" or "note sync" or something to that effect. If you turn that off, the lfo should play at a constant rate/(low frequency) pitch.

  Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD said:

while we're here, is there a VST plugin which will generate LFO-modulated CC channel output? with its own LFOs? and sync to tempo?

 

like, a bank of eight LFOs with standard timesync and waveshape, with fields like output to CC# whatever, range 30-100, CC level at LFO 0 point, intensity

 

 

i'd love a plugin like that. maybe i should write it, can't be that bad

Yeah, I could use one of those. What I could also go for is an LFO modulating the master tempo track. Does anyone know of a way to connect an LFO to the master Tempo in Logic Pro? I've been trying on and off to solve this problem for a few weeks now, with no results.

cant do it... best you could do is manually draw the cruves in the tempo track

  Kcinsu said:

it sounds like you have keyboard tracking on. This basically speeds up/slows down the LFOs rate in a ratio to the note you are playing. for example.... lets say you are playing a C... and the LFO sounds like its doing 1/8th notes. If you play C an octave up, itll make the LFO sound like 1/16th notes. because an octave is a doubling pitch... so double the LFO and its twice as fast. And all the pitches between C and C one octave up, it will increase its speed in ratio of the divisions of the octave... because remember, and LFO is a low frequency OSCILLATOR.... same idea as an audio frequency oscillator, but slowed down... as you play up the keyboard, it increases the speed.

 

 

So, look around on your VST and see if there is a "keyboard tracking" or "pitch tracking" or "note sync" or something to that effect. If you turn that off, the lfo should play at a constant rate/(low frequency) pitch.

Yeah, that's essentially it. I had a sniff around on the Dubstepforum and there do appear to be vst bass synths which have LFO's that sync to tempo. Now all I need to do is find them.

tempo sync is very easy to come by. I think you are referring to phase sync to host by the lfo. Which is harder to come by. Otherwise, with "free running" tempo synced lfo's, the song is going to sound different every time you play it. The only time it is not going to sound different if it can clue in the the time messeges by the host somehow. Also there would be no problem if the lfo was synced to notes being hit, which is an easy feature to come by. Thats maybe not the effect you are going for.

p.s. sorry I don't have specific synths to mention, except maybe surge. I remember noticing that playback sounded identical when I started from the beginning every time, even though there existed free-running lfos in the patch I was using.

EDIT: also you mention the lfo moves out of sync when you play different notes. This either means to me that the phase is being reset because you are using sync to note on the LFO, or you are modulating the rate of the LFO somehow, probably by keytracking like somebody else mentioned, but I doubt that is what you meant.

ok, heres a list of vst's I know off and use which allow you to set the lfo at a constant rate (which stays the same)

absynth

reaktor (most of the preset synths)

kontakt

fm7

poly ana

moog moduler V

crystal

Z3TA+

antares filter

to be honest mate, i'm just looking down my list of synths i use and as yet i havent found one which DOESNT have a set-value lfo, are you sure you havent just missed a button somewhere?

as for a vst which is just an lfo i dont think that could work (i may be wrong, im not a programmer!) because an lfo generator just generates a number that you send to another controll like filter cutoff etc. so a straight up lfo vst would not have anything to link to! (unless you can program some clever way to make it send data to a control on a different vst, but i imagine that would be near impossible and i have never seen it myself!). so what you need is maybe a vst filter, try psp nitro or antares filter, they allow all sorts of lfo syncing options, and allow you to controll most of the knobs via an lfo. most of the 'good' vsts for other effects have similar options, what exactly are you using, and wanting to control via an lfo?

In Renoise there is a VST meta device called LFO that can modulate anything, midi CC, track tempo, any value on any VSt, even the value of another LFO. It even has a random function that basically simulates an LFO controlled S&H module with a random input. It's simple to do I dont know why other packages don't have it.

  welcome to the machine said:

as for a vst which is just an lfo i dont think that could work (i may be wrong, im not a programmer!) because an lfo generator just generates a number that you send to another controll like filter cutoff etc. so a straight up lfo vst would not have anything to link to! (unless you can program some clever way to make it send data to a control on a different vst, but i imagine that would be near impossible and i have never seen it myself!).

lol, its called midi CC and yes, there are LFO vsts which will generate CCs, I have used them. At audio rate it won't sound right but besides that it works alright.

  Bubba69 said:

  welcome to the machine said:

as for a vst which is just an lfo i dont think that could work (i may be wrong, im not a programmer!) because an lfo generator just generates a number that you send to another controll like filter cutoff etc. so a straight up lfo vst would not have anything to link to! (unless you can program some clever way to make it send data to a control on a different vst, but i imagine that would be near impossible and i have never seen it myself!).

 

lol, its called midi CC and yes, there are LFO vsts which will generate CCs, I have used them. At audio rate it won't sound right but besides that it works alright.

hmm, i was thinking more for vst's in general, not just midi cc for vsti or real instrument , you cant use cc to change the wet/dry on waves rverb for example, and then link that to an lfo! would be nice if someone could work out a way though...

If you have a tempo synced LFO and you play along with the clicktrack of your host app, surely it'll sound the same each time?

  welcome to the machine said:

  Bubba69 said:

  welcome to the machine said:

as for a vst which is just an lfo i dont think that could work (i may be wrong, im not a programmer!) because an lfo generator just generates a number that you send to another controll like filter cutoff etc. so a straight up lfo vst would not have anything to link to! (unless you can program some clever way to make it send data to a control on a different vst, but i imagine that would be near impossible and i have never seen it myself!).

 

lol, its called midi CC and yes, there are LFO vsts which will generate CCs, I have used them. At audio rate it won't sound right but besides that it works alright.

 

hmm, i was thinking more for vst's in general, not just midi cc for vsti or real instrument , you cant use cc to change the wet/dry on waves rverb for example, and then link that to an lfo! would be nice if someone could work out a way though...

Oh yeah that has been one of my dreams as well. The vst format kind of sucks though, I would image there will someday be a format where there is sample accurate data that can stream from various sources in a synth and allow many different modular synths to communicate in one environment.

  Bubba69 said:

  welcome to the machine said:

  Bubba69 said:

  welcome to the machine said:

as for a vst which is just an lfo i dont think that could work (i may be wrong, im not a programmer!) because an lfo generator just generates a number that you send to another controll like filter cutoff etc. so a straight up lfo vst would not have anything to link to! (unless you can program some clever way to make it send data to a control on a different vst, but i imagine that would be near impossible and i have never seen it myself!).

 

lol, its called midi CC and yes, there are LFO vsts which will generate CCs, I have used them. At audio rate it won't sound right but besides that it works alright.

 

hmm, i was thinking more for vst's in general, not just midi cc for vsti or real instrument , you cant use cc to change the wet/dry on waves rverb for example, and then link that to an lfo! would be nice if someone could work out a way though...

 

Oh yeah that has been one of my dreams as well. The vst format kind of sucks though, I would image there will someday be a format where there is sample accurate data that can stream from various sources in a synth and allow many different modular synths to communicate in one environment.

yeah i agree, maybe not even just a rethink of vst style ideas, but a rethink of midi in general. I mean its been around for 24 years and im sure with a new 'standard' interfacing language, or basis for language, then allot more would be easy to do!

Err ok maybe the third time that two people have mentioned it someone will read, in Renoise you CAN use the Meta LFO device to control ANY VST parameter you choose. Any. Anything. Anything at all. Absolutely anything you would like to control with an LFO that is music software associated with Renoise you can control. With the Renoise LFO device. Anything. VST related. Or Renoise related. Or both. With the Renoise. LFO. Device.

Not sure why other packages don't offer this because it's fucking simple to do. There's nothing different between drawing a value change envelope for a VST parameter and having a software LFO modulate it. Maybe this does exist in other packages and people don't know about it or something.

PS, the sex time is when you have tons of LFO's in Renoise modulating each other's rate.

  ten fingers ten toes said:

Err ok maybe the third time that two people have mentioned it someone will read, in Renoise you CAN use the Meta LFO device to control ANY VST parameter you choose. Any. Anything. Anything at all. Absolutely anything you would like to control with an LFO that is music software associated with Renoise you can control. With the Renoise LFO device. Anything. VST related. Or Renoise related. Or both. With the Renoise. LFO. Device.

 

Not sure why other packages don't offer this because it's fucking simple to do. There's nothing different between drawing a value change envelope for a VST parameter and having a software LFO modulate it. Maybe this does exist in other packages and people don't know about it or something.

 

PS, the sex time is when you have tons of LFO's in Renoise modulating each other's rate.

cool, i'll check that out.

as a side, does it work for the waves plugs as well? I only ask because in cubase the parameters in waves are not editable via any kind of program change envelope or automation, something to do with it working within a shell vst or something. so you cant even draw changes with the track automation like you can with everything else... its a bit annoying, i dont use them alot but they are good workhorses I like to have around and it would be useful to be able to controll them properly!

Yes it works with Waves plugins, I don't know why they show up fucked in Cubase, maybe yo uhave some fucked plugs because they show fine for all values in Renoise. I have the Waves Diamond bundle if that helps.

  ten fingers ten toes said:

Err ok maybe the third time that two people have mentioned it someone will read, in Renoise you CAN use the Meta LFO device to control ANY VST parameter you choose. Any. Anything. Anything at all. Absolutely anything you would like to control with an LFO that is music software associated with Renoise you can control. With the Renoise LFO device. Anything. VST related. Or Renoise related. Or both. With the Renoise. LFO. Device.

 

Not sure why other packages don't offer this because it's fucking simple to do. There's nothing different between drawing a value change envelope for a VST parameter and having a software LFO modulate it. Maybe this does exist in other packages and people don't know about it or something.

 

PS, the sex time is when you have tons of LFO's in Renoise modulating each other's rate.

This is at high res as well? Thats a good move to make. All hosts should have basic stuff like that. Most of them have high res envelopes but sometimes the parameters themselves cannot be changed without stepping unless internally modulated. but as long as the LFOs stay in LFs then it will be fine.

Well the "res" is as accurate as you want to make it, it runs on ticks per cycle, and if you're not familiar with trackers then it's different than what you might be used to. You can edit the value of how many ticks per beat you want in the song properties, it just changes how the song is going to end up laid out because the more ticks per beat the higher then BPM will need to be to make it faster.

It's plenty high res enough to make the change sound smoothe, anyhow.