The best sequencer for drum beats/edits/patterns?

I used to use just Cubase VST 2.4 for literally 6/7 years and now am using Live which I totally love but the drum editing remains total shit and slow to use. It frustrates the hell out of me. Back in the day when I was using VST 2.4 I found I could do some really good edits and patterns and now the creativity has gone because Ableton is so sucky in that dept.

Okay so just wondering firstly who uses Ableton and how do they feel about that and secondly are there any add ons to get a better key/drum editor where I can cut and paste shit quickly, do velocity curves with ease and have a pop up full screen of it etc. Again lots of good things about Ableton but the key/drum editor is certainly not one of them.

Views appreciated.

renoise and flstudio

im not a fan programming drums by hand, i like to tap everything out, either on a sampler or in reason with a keyboard

two turntables and a microphone

The answer would be 5 different things for 5 different people, it's whatever works best for you. If you don't like editing in Cubase or Live, try something radically different like Renoise.

I use a Live/Renoise combo for everything, for that exact reason: live kind of sux for drum editing, unless you're using an mpc/padkontrol etc type of thing, so all beatwork is done in Renoise. I guess I'd put forward renoise for drum editing but, as has already been said, it's definitely worth trying heaps of different software to find your best fit. Also, I don't mean to hijack this thread but has anyone had any experience 'rewire'ing renoise into live? At present I just render out seperate tracks and edit the wav's in live. It works fine but I wouldn't mind speeding up my workflow a wee bit..

  ten fingers ten toes said:

The answer would be 5 different things for 5 different people, it's whatever works best for you. If you don't like editing in Cubase or Live, try something radically different like Renoise.

I agree. I like editing breaks on Ableton but for making drum beats with the key editor it sucks. And in my opinion drum/key editing was king on Cubase up until VST 2.4 no doubt. I tried later versions of Cubase but found them disagreeable. May give renoise ago soon though defo.

renoise and the nord modular sequencers work for me, so I'd recommend trying renoise or fruity loops.

For me the most direct way to program drums is Battery and a piano roll. Also, a DAW with good automation controls which, in my case, is Logic.

Trackorz give most direct control 4 ur beets.

Want to granulate your 808 hihat manually?

Chop breaks sans beatslicers?

Dabble in hex?

Ableton seems cool but I haven't put much time into learning it.

The only real way is to pick one and go for it.

It's like buying your first guitar. You just can't know what's right until you have some experience.

They just added a step sequencer to Sonar. Getting good reviews, but I havent tried it yet

  mrx said:

nord modular sequencers

ftw!

Nord Modular sequencers + BCR-2000's button array makes happy sextime on your desk.

I draw beats on paper and scan them into my idmdrum-o-lator for maximum electronic music.

I use Ableton at the moment. I wrote an album last month to learn it and use it. Everything was field recording samples so I had quite a bit of experience with sequencing in it.

Drum racks are really nice incase you didn’t discover already. You can find a drum loop you like in your directory, right click, and slice to new midi track. This will give you a pimped out piano roll folded with your drum hits labeled. More importantly each drum slice is its own channel, so you can apply effects to individual hits, or the entire rack itself.

Random Note: Its important that when you are editing clips that you press control + 1 and control + 2 which basically shrinks and enlarges the grid that you are working with.

The Sampler is also really nice but a bit unfriendly for programming drums. Yet you can do all sorts of electronic music things with it as you can use LFO’s and an envelop control everything from pitch to start end points of loops, you can really pull some reactor/short circuit type effects thru this thing.

I have another friend who does everything via the arranger window (which I think is nuts). He will load up breaks above a track and control e to separate chunks and then reorder (again use the control + 1/2 method).

Finally if I really want to do hardcore drum programming, what I typically do is render an outline of the section of the song I want to work on (typically I’ll outline an entire song using a loop in place of where I want the fancier drums to go), load it into energy xt2, and then load up energy xt2 as a vst inside of Buzz (I suppose you could do the same thing with FL studio and Renoise). From there I write my tracker sequencing and record it into energy xt2 afterwards. Save it, then transfer the file into Ableton.

if you liked cubase

get ur hands on nuendo

I love the crap out of this program

  acid1 said:

I have another friend who does everything via the arranger window (which I think is nuts). He will load up breaks above a track and control e to separate chunks and then reorder (again use the control + 1/2 method).

lol that's what i do

^ there are reversed, transposed bits, and lots of automation (volume, reverb, delay, etc.etc.). it's actually quite entertaining, but not as fun as tracking

  qnio said:

  acid1 said:

I have another friend who does everything via the arranger window (which I think is nuts). He will load up breaks above a track and control e to separate chunks and then reorder (again use the control + 1/2 method).

 

lol that's what i do

 

 

^ there are reversed, transposed bits, and lots of automation (volume, reverb, delay, etc.etc.). it's actually quite entertaining, but not as fun as tracking

same tactic w/ Nuendo but check it:

macro commands to print specified processes to selected audio region(s).

for example : i can select a section of audio and hit: F, enter, R, enter, S, enter to process the sample with the waves meta-flanger, reverse it and flip the stereo image

shit is sweet

you can assign macros to almost anything

like j turns the grid locking off

control allows me to drag audio/midi event lengths off the grid etc...

sweet

Man. That sounds great. I wish Logic and live had the ability to use macros.

  pantsonmyhead said:

same tactic w/ Nuendo but check it:

 

macro commands to print specified processes to selected audio region(s).

 

for example : i can select a section of audio and hit: F, enter, R, enter, S, enter to process the sample with the waves meta-flanger, reverse it and flip the stereo image

 

shit is sweet

you can assign macros to almost anything

like j turns the grid locking off

control allows me to drag audio/midi event lengths off the grid etc...

sweet

wow that sounds nice, but i'm too busy/lazy right now to check other daws, i haven't even checked the new live release (wtf are drum racks?)

im just downloading pro tools

i hear thats pretty good, if a little complicated.

i wanna try something other than logic and live

i may give renoise a go aswell.

anyone know anything about pro tools? its pretty fucking expensive

pro tools is shit for midi

  TheTuskenRaider said:

I draw beats on paper and scan them into my idmdrum-o-lator for maximum electronic music.

i actually do that....

except the electronic music part..