bailouts...

So, "we" passed a 750 billion dollar bailout plan.

Now, "we" are proposing another 850 billion dollar bailout plan.

What happened to the first 750? What happened to the accountability? Obama is sounding alot like Bush and Paulson.

nah breda obama is change truss

Edgey, I don't know if you have heard. But no one knows what happened to the first 300 billion that has already been sent out already. The senate sent a memo to the department of the treasury and the treasury responded something like, "we are looking into what happened to the billions lol".

lol Japan did a whole bunch of bailouts during their economic crisis and they stagnated for like a generation lol. lol Obama. lol.

Everything is fucked.

So bush passed the first bailout and gave it to car companies and banks, and now obama wants to pass another stimulus plan shit like public transit and revamping civic buildings to make them cheaper and more efficient. Personally im fine to try a bailout as long as its used effectively and intelligently. Obama seems very gung ho about making the spending on this stimulus plan extremely transparent. And its not like japan is exactly worse for the wear nowadays is it?

also you "lol change lol"ers seem to be conveniently ignoring all the other bush-era policies obama is trying to now revoke (namely gitmo, stem cell research)

but whatever. im completely politically ignorant so what do iknow.

  Rook said:

Edgey, I don't know if you have heard. But no one knows what happened to the first 300 billion that has already been sent out already. The senate sent a memo to the department of the treasury and the treasury responded something like, "we are looking into what happened to the billions lol".

 

 

lol Japan did a whole bunch of bailouts during their economic crisis and they stagnated for like a generation lol. lol Obama. lol.

exactly... where did it go? and weren't they only granted half? So isn't there still 350 billion left? Why ask for more, if they haven't finished the first bailout yet?

  42Orange said:

also you "lol change lol"ers seem to be conveniently ignoring all the other bush-era policies obama is trying to now revoke (namely gitmo, stem cell research)

they just found a gitmo detainee, since released, acting as deputee for al qaeda in yemen.. responsible for several terrorist attacks in the 10 months he's been released, and "re-educated".

Detainee went from Gitmo to al Qaeda, officials say - CNN.com 2:31pm

"A Saudi national released from U.S. detention at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in September 2007 is believed to be a key leader in al Qaeda's operations in Yemen, according to a U.S. counterterrorism official."

Torture has never been proven to yield better results than conventional interrogation, so reverting back to the Army field manual is a good thing. Closing a prison because the Warden exercises poor decisions isn't a solution though... What are we to do with the POWs? Return them to their corrupt country of origin? House them in our prisons so they can recruit stateside on our dime? I think it would have been best to replace all staff at Guantanamo Bay, revert to the Geneva convention regarding POW treatment and follow due process of wartime law.

...and it was bush that passed the stem cell research plans in 2001... it was the FDA that approved further human testing. obama had nothing to do with it. i'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but just because the FDA made plans after the inauguration, doesn't mean it was obama who is responsible.

  EDGEY said:

  Rook said:

Edgey, I don't know if you have heard. But no one knows what happened to the first 300 billion that has already been sent out already. The senate sent a memo to the department of the treasury and the treasury responded something like, "we are looking into what happened to the billions lol".

 

 

lol Japan did a whole bunch of bailouts during their economic crisis and they stagnated for like a generation lol. lol Obama. lol.

So isn't there still 350 billion left?

yes

  EDGEY said:

  42Orange said:

also you "lol change lol"ers seem to be conveniently ignoring all the other bush-era policies obama is trying to now revoke (namely gitmo, stem cell research)

they just found a gitmo detainee, since released, acting as deputee for alquaida in yemen.. responsible for several terrorist attacks in the 10 months he's been released, and "re-educated".

 

Detainee went from Gitmo to al Qaeda, officials say - CNN.com 2:31pm

"A Saudi national released from U.S. detention at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in September 2007 is believed to be a key leader in al Qaeda's operations in Yemen, according to a U.S. counterterrorism official."

 

Torture has never been proven to yield better results than conventional interrogation, so reverting back to the Army field manual is a good thing. Closing a prison because the Warden exercises poor decisions isn't a solution though... What are we to do with the POWs? Return them to their corrupt country of origin? House them in our prisons so they can recruit stateside on our dime? I think it would have been best to replace all staff at Guantanamo Bay, revert to the Geneva convention regarding POW treatment and follow due process of wartime law.

 

...and it was bush that passed the stem cell research plans in 2001... it was the FDA that approved further human testing. obama had nothing to do with it. i'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but just because the FDA made plans after the inauguration, doesn't mean it was obama who is responsible.

what does a prisoner released from gitmo in 2007 have to do with anything? the prisoners arent going being released? How the fuck would i know what we should do, but honestly it shouldnt cost us that much to turn them onto our judicial system or that of willing allies. We jail fuckers like there's no tomorrow. and its not like theres thousands of them in the camps.

and why did bush pass stem cell research plans if hes always been against it? Nevermind, its off topic. But It was also my mistake for citing that, i shouldve said the reversal on abortion funds. These are just small examples in the first few DAYS of him in office, i just cant see how you can still be incredulous that obama will be a harbinger of many changes in presidential office.

  42Orange said:

  EDGEY said:

  42Orange said:

also you "lol change lol"ers seem to be conveniently ignoring all the other bush-era policies obama is trying to now revoke (namely gitmo, stem cell research)

they just found a gitmo detainee, since released, acting as deputee for alquaida in yemen.. responsible for several terrorist attacks in the 10 months he's been released, and "re-educated".

 

Detainee went from Gitmo to al Qaeda, officials say - CNN.com 2:31pm

"A Saudi national released from U.S. detention at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in September 2007 is believed to be a key leader in al Qaeda's operations in Yemen, according to a U.S. counterterrorism official."

 

Torture has never been proven to yield better results than conventional interrogation, so reverting back to the Army field manual is a good thing. Closing a prison because the Warden exercises poor decisions isn't a solution though... What are we to do with the POWs? Return them to their corrupt country of origin? House them in our prisons so they can recruit stateside on our dime? I think it would have been best to replace all staff at Guantanamo Bay, revert to the Geneva convention regarding POW treatment and follow due process of wartime law.

 

...and it was bush that passed the stem cell research plans in 2001... it was the FDA that approved further human testing. obama had nothing to do with it. i'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but just because the FDA made plans after the inauguration, doesn't mean it was obama who is responsible.

 

what does a prisoner released from gitmo in 2007 have to do with anything? the prisoners arent going being released? How the fuck would i know what we should do, but honestly it shouldnt cost us that much to turn them onto our judicial system or that of willing allies. We jail fuckers like there's no tomorrow. and its not like theres thousands of them in the camps.

 

and why did bush pass stem cell research plans if hes always been against it? Nevermind, its off topic. But It was also my mistake for citing that, i shouldve said the reversal on abortion funds. These are just small examples in the first few DAYS of him in office, i just cant see how you can still be incredulous that obama will be a harbinger of many changes in presidential office.

err.. you brought it up.

  EDGEY said:

err.. you brought it up.

the released detainee? no i didnt? that happened over two years ago. Im talking about obamas action since he became president.

  42Orange said:

  EDGEY said:

err.. you brought it up.

 

the released detainee? no i didnt? that happened over two years ago. Im talking about obamas action since he became president.

ugh... you brought up gitmo and stem cell research, and it wasn't 2 years ago...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/git...html#cnnSTCText

1. It is an object of contention, "what do we do with the detainees?", given past experience, and new insights, it's obvious that release, and re-education does not work. So what are the options? I understand it's a more a "gesture" than a solution to close the prison, but some more details would be helpful, but I think the details wouldn't look most favorable for him on day 1 of his presidency.

2. Obama hasn't done anything regarding stem cell research.

So, the 2 items of greatness you report on his now days old presidency (which have nothing to do with my post regarding the "new" bailout), haven't any merit (just like your post). But as the staunch defender of obama that you are, please explain to me how his bailout differs from that last (especially considering he already has leftover funds from the last bailout available to him).

i know obama hasnt done anything with stem cell research which is why i already said i probably shouldve mentioned his reversal of abortion funding instead.

and yes it was two years ago. read the first line of the article

  Quote

A Saudi national released from U.S. detention at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in September 2007

ie obama had nothing to do with it, so i still dont understand how its relevant.

No they have nothing to do with the bailout. I didnt say they did, nor did i list them as items of "greatness" just plain as day differences between the two administrations. I think its ridiculous people think hes some big democratic joke or a new black bush already.

And you know what, i already mentioned how the two bailouts differ. Bush gave bailouts to banks and car companies and apparently "lost" some too. Obama wants to put the money into alternative energy, civic shit, and release a website that will show how every dollar of the bailout is being spent. Its pretty obvious how the plans differ. and its pretty obvious that one is being handled much more intelligently, and efficiently.

  Quote

The president revealed more details of his stimulus package, which he said would add more than 3,000 miles of electric lines to transport alternative energy across the country.

 

Obama also said the plan would save taxpayers $2 billion by making three-quarters of federal buildings more energy efficient and would "save the average working family $350 on their energy bills by weatherizing 2.5 million homes."

 

The White House also released a report on the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan, which calls for greater investment in Pell Grants for college students, a $2,500 college tax credit for 4 million college students and the tripling of the number of fellowships in science to help spur innovation.

 

Obama promised full accountability for government spending. After a stimulus bill is passed, a Web site, www.recovery.gov, will show taxpayers how their money is being spent, he said.

I do believe Paulson promised the exact same transparency and accountability.

The rest sounds like short-term infrastructure projects and handouts.

Why do they keep calling this new plan "unprecedented"? Seriously. We *just* did this a few months ago... do americans really have *that* short an attention span? Obama just announced that he is going to be using this new stimulus plan to "buy up bad investments" and to "create a new 'bad bank' to hold the investments", didn't we *just* do this? How is this "unprecedented"?

Time to go commie. Join me in my kibbutz and we shall feast upon homegrown food and electronic music

it's not even the same kind of thing, not even close. one thing is to make private debt public and another to do public spending on infrastructure.

  GORDO said:

it's not even the same kind of thing, not even close. one thing is to make private debt public and another to do public spending on infrastructure.

At least do a *little* research...

is this what you are talking about?

  Quote

Modernize Federal Infrastructure.

 

$32 billion for transportation.

$31 billion to modernize federal buildings.

$19 billion in water projects.

$10 billion mass transit projects.

Double Alternative Energy Production in Three Years

 

$32 billion for a "smart electricity grid."

$20 billion in renewable energy tax cuts.

$6 billion to weatherize homes.

Expand Health Care

 

$39 billion to subsidize health care insurance for the unemployed.

$90 billion to help states with Medicaid.

$20 billion to modernize health information technology systems.

$4 billion for preventative care.

$1.5 billion for community health centers.

Improve Education

 

$41 billion to school districts.

$79 billion to states.

$21 billion for school modernization.

$16 billion to boost the Pell Grant.

$2 billion for Head Start.

Invest in Science Research and Technology

 

$10 billion for science facilities.

$6 billion to expand broadband.

$1 billion for the 2010 Census.

I think you might appreciate this edgey..

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB1233...OTEyMDk0Wj.html

Edit: I see Gordo already posted some of it. But I would be willing to bet that most people don't know what "$10 billion for mass transit" actually means for the economy.

Are you talking about a second bailout, or the stimulus bill?  Cause that passed, but it's gonna do just about as much good as the last one did . . . and now the recession is worse.

  Rook said:

I think you might appreciate this edgey..

 

 

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB1233...OTEyMDk0Wj.html

 

 

 

Edit: I see Gordo already posted some of it. But I would be willing to bet that most people don't know what "$10 billion for mass transit" actually means for the economy.

what does it actually mean?

I guess the "change" Obama was talking about was spending more money.

  EDGEY said:

So, "we" passed a 750 billion dollar bailout plan.

 

Now, "we" are proposing another 850 billion dollar bailout plan.

 

What happened to the first 750? What happened to the accountability? Obama is sounding alot like Bush and Paulson.

ummm, i thought this was obvious but:

stimulus plan ≠ tarp funds

you can debate the wisdom behind each, but they're not the same thing dude.

  LOL Alzado said:

stimulus plan ≠ tarp funds

you can debate the wisdom behind each, but they're not the same thing dude.

They're not...completely different, I know...One is asking for us to pay for things, and the other is asking us to pay for different things... He's currently making plans to spend the other 350 billion (and from what I see he's going to give a stern talking to to those Wall Street guys, they better watch out!). I'm simply amazed how up in arms everyone was over the first request for hundreds of billions of dollars, but people are so complacent now, we just accept it (not like we have a voice in the matter anyways).

The new stimulus plan should've been called "everything the democrats always wanted but couldn't figure out how to get enough money to pay for it" plan, same bullshit, just doling the money out to different friends (no washington insiders in his cabinet!). He's playing the same fear card bush played, and to me, he's quite the hypocrite talking about the debt "we're handing our children", while asking for an additional 850 billion dollars for pet projects... like giving out free condoms...

  Braintree said:

I guess the "change" Obama was talking about was spending more money.

The "change" he was talking about ... is all that's going to be left in your pocket. He can "keep the change", thanks.

* edit - I failed the spelling test.