today i was very very high at work

the idea that everyone is living in their own little subjective world of reality is continually mind blowing for me. today, i got high with some of my co-workers, and i felt like i was entering into other realms, or deeper dimensions. what i think is normal in my sober mind, becomes something completely different in my high mind, and i also notice that everyone else notices the same thing, yet i find almost no one talking about it. it seems like everyone is afraid to talk about these things, which is weird, because to me they seem may more obvious than things like physical matter and such. why dont people like to talk about it? i dont know. its incredibly interesting to me anyway. for me, it feels like we are living in this weird computer program, or fake reality, or a matrix. we are real, yet the situation we constantly find ourselves in seems completely unreal. we see realness in ourselves and others, so then we assume that the world we are living in must be real too, yet that is an unproved assumption

this was blowing my mind all day long and still is. if this makes no sense to you, then i have to say, in the least aggressive and pompous way i know how, you are living in an unrealistic world. either that, or you are such an expert on reality, that you should become a monk of some sort. i dont think most people who dont understand this type of thing should be monks though, because when you try to discuss this type of thing to them, they get confused and conversation seems impossible

can anyone else relate to these sorts of ideas?

People can't talk about what words can't describe, that's what art is for.

i liked how your post was quick and to the point

i didnt like how your post didnt really have all that much to say

i enjoyed the simplicity of your post

i was generally disappointed when i realized your post didnt really have that much to offer

i do like the part about how words cant describe it though, and that art is a better form

keep these thoughts to yourself, they will become more powerful and honest that way. talking about them only pollutes the pureness

i do like the part about how words cant describe it though, and that art is a better form

but if understanding the english language is incredibly subjective, imagine how hard communication would become if you used visual or sound art as a vehicle, it becomes false and impossible

well birds and insects and shit get along quite well making cheeky sounds soooooo, arguement invalid

  karmakramer said:

keep these thoughts to yourself, they will become more powerful and honest that way. talking about them only pollutes the pureness

when you say, "these thoughts", it leads me to think that you believe that there are other compartments of your mind which are equally as legitamite and valid or more important than this concept. the point is that the aformentioned concept is actuallythe main point of life in itself, and in reality, because it is the only way to perceive reality in it truest form, all else fails to become real therefore important

  ET said:

but if understanding the english language is incredibly subjective, imagine how hard communication would become if you used visual or sound art as a vehicle, it becomes false and impossible

its impossible to communicate such ideas and concepts because they are perspectives things that must be realized through experiences. art tries to replicate it but it ultimately can't... it is a construction of the truth just like anything, making it impure.

Spiritual thoughts such as these I find only truly advance when one reflects on it by themselves, talking about it only pollutes it with other's perspectives which will unintentionally alter your conclusions...

be thankful you experience such moments and try your hardest to share them, but don't talk about them... as posdit said, express it through art.

  yek said:

well birds and insects and shit get along quite well making cheeky sounds soooooo, argument invalid

birds and insects live in a constant state of fear and survival. they do not get along well at all, they can hardly live together in the same area. fear is their main understanding. thats why its almost impossible to approach a bird closely, or touch an insect without it freaking out and running away

in a basic way, we are very much like the bird. we are easily started and easily run away. the truth is to learn that there is nothing to fear because you are only afraid of a product in which your own mind constructed

i think what you're saying is true. people don't talk about it for a number of reasons, mostly because it leads to a recursive analysis spiral that is paralyzing. you can basically distill it down to the fact that nobody knows much of anything, which i think is very important.

  karmakramer said:

  ET said:

but if understanding the english language is incredibly subjective, imagine how hard communication would become if you used visual or sound art as a vehicle, it becomes false and impossible

 

its impossible to communicate such ideas and concepts because they are perspectives things that must be realized through experiences. art tries to replicate it but it ultimately can't... it is a construction of the truth just like anything, making it impure.

 

Spiritual thoughts such as these I find only truly advance when one reflects on it by themselves, talking about it only pollutes it with other's perspectives which will unintentionally alter your conclusions...

 

be thankful you experience such moments and try your hardest to share them, but don't talk about them... as posdit said, express it through art.

well i disagree in that when talking about such concepts, its a good thing, it helps one understand things on a deeper level by getting it outside of the world of subjectivity. i agree about it not being talked about though, and it being communicated through art. unfortunately, if you want to be a normal member of society and have friends and know and meet new people, you have to adhere to a social code which make no logical sense, yet is required to understand, if you are interested in creating any kind of real human bond. thats how i see it anyway

My boss got me drunk at work last Saturday.

  ET said:

  karmakramer said:

  ET said:

but if understanding the english language is incredibly subjective, imagine how hard communication would become if you used visual or sound art as a vehicle, it becomes false and impossible

 

its impossible to communicate such ideas and concepts because they are perspectives things that must be realized through experiences. art tries to replicate it but it ultimately can't... it is a construction of the truth just like anything, making it impure.

 

Spiritual thoughts such as these I find only truly advance when one reflects on it by themselves, talking about it only pollutes it with other's perspectives which will unintentionally alter your conclusions...

 

be thankful you experience such moments and try your hardest to share them, but don't talk about them... as posdit said, express it through art.

 

well i disagree in that when talking about such concepts, its a good thing, it helps one understand things on a deeper level by getting it outside of the world of subjectivity. i agree about it not being talked about though, and it being communicated through art. unfortunately, if you want to be a normal member of society and have friends and know and meet new people, you have to adhere to a social code which make no logical sense, yet is required to understand, if you are interested in creating any kind of real human bond. thats how i see it anyway

subjectivity is the only way to think, there is no such thing as objectivity. in this sense anything you create should be for yourself because it is impossible to understand/know any other perspective.

  A/D said:

i think what you're saying is true. people don't talk about it for a number of reasons, mostly because it leads to a recursive analysis spiral that is paralyzing. you can basically distill it down to the fact that nobody knows much of anything, which i think is very important.

yeah, no one knows anything. i like that. id also like to add that all human fears are in one way or another a form of a fear of death, calculated into such as way as to be translated into, "i need to pay rent", or im falling down the stairs", or "oh my god, i have cancer". its all just fear. nothing else. its like an addictive drug that almost everyone is addicted to, so much so that not only do they believe that they are addicted, that they have no idea how to be any other way

but yea, no one knows anything. id like to repeat that a thousand times to every human on earth, but id probably get raped or lynched.......good times

  karmakramer said:

  ET said:

  karmakramer said:

  ET said:

but if understanding the english language is incredibly subjective, imagine how hard communication would become if you used visual or sound art as a vehicle, it becomes false and impossible

 

its impossible to communicate such ideas and concepts because they are perspectives things that must be realized through experiences. art tries to replicate it but it ultimately can't... it is a construction of the truth just like anything, making it impure.

 

Spiritual thoughts such as these I find only truly advance when one reflects on it by themselves, talking about it only pollutes it with other's perspectives which will unintentionally alter your conclusions...

 

be thankful you experience such moments and try your hardest to share them, but don't talk about them... as posdit said, express it through art.

 

well i disagree in that when talking about such concepts, its a good thing, it helps one understand things on a deeper level by getting it outside of the world of subjectivity. i agree about it not being talked about though, and it being communicated through art. unfortunately, if you want to be a normal member of society and have friends and know and meet new people, you have to adhere to a social code which make no logical sense, yet is required to understand, if you are interested in creating any kind of real human bond. thats how i see it anyway

 

subjectivity is the only way to think, there is no such thing as objectivity. in this sense anything you create should be for yourself because it is impossible to understand/know any other perspective.

objectivity must exist though, to some degree or another, as it seems to effect our lives in every moment

it exists, but I don't think if can ever be understood.

philosophers talk about this kind of shit all of the time I'm pretty sure

well i'm high and think this is dumb

we are both wrong OMG MINDFUCKKKKKK

fear of death is a good way to put it. people forget that every time we make a choice it is the death of innumerable other choices. it's much easier to stick with choices already made than to reevaluate your situation every second with every possible choice. there's nothing stopping you from putting rubber cement on your hands and spidering around china, or going to the kitchen and castrating yourself, or writing a symphony out of the sounds of vines in the wind. this is why it's so important to talk to your body and learn what you need out of life, because all of these choices are equal and for some reason there are only a few that will make you feel love inside.

i hate when a thread like this catches me off guard because i get all new agey and honest with you sick bastards. et everything is going to be okay, just be careful of thinking too much, it can be a poison.

i highly recommend "The Problems of Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell. it's pretty short, and available online:

http://books.google.com/books?id=a6NBKtfoN...lt&resnum=3

it has a simple, accessible, and reasonable presentation of what we can know, how we can know, perception, subjectivity, etc. he starts with the very basics at the beginning--the sorts of things that are being discussed here--so jump right in!

i've had some interesting insights while on weed that have held up, but i think sober philosophy is an ever better way to go ;)

ive always believed that we have a shared unconsciousness, when we sleep we are all part of the same "reality" just as we are when awake which would explain alot of the influences, ideas and deja-vu shit someone can be imparted with in the waking state, there are clearly boundaries within this construct but when one lucid dreams (which i do ALOT) we can get closer to being in contact with others who are also sleeping, something like that anyway.

where do you work ET , i am gonna come meet you !!

  kaen said:

ive always believed that we have a shared unconsciousness, when we sleep we are all part of the same "reality" just as we are when awake which would explain alot of the influences, ideas and deja-vu shit someone can be imparted with in the waking state, there are clearly boundaries within this construct but when one lucid dreams (which i do ALOT) we can get closer to being in contact with others who are also sleeping, something like that anyway.

Have you any advice to give me about lucid dreaming ? Over the past days i've had a few lucid dreams, but I wasn't couscious enough and the only fun thing that came to my mind was flying. I've also a very realistic mind : one night i turned myself into batman, flew for a while, then realized batman doesn't fly, and finally turned myself into spiderman(who could fly because i was in manhattan). What i want to say is that i meet a lot of difficulties in achieving 'unrealistic' stuff, like making a gun appear in my hands whilst surrounded by ennemies. How can i overcome this kind of behavior ?

Plus, i totally agree with the shared unconsciousness thing. I remember my first strong long-lasting lucid dream occured in cloister. At the center, there was a kind of Fountain of Youth, all covered with moss, yet the water seemed like crystal. Wathever, the whole dream was very spiritual, something almost religious. Then i realized i wasn't alone in the room : there were this guy i used to know, who was a total prick in reality, a sort of self-confident friendless bum, well someone anoying I don't care about. Yet he was the only human being in my dream, and it wordlessly emerged that he was a very sad & lonely person, which is likely to be true as it was the first time I considered things from this point of view.

ET you need to read more.

philosophers have been writing about this shit for thousands of years.

This matrix sort of feeling you get, perhaps you get this feeling because of your industrialized environment. I feel this on the way to work, when i see everyone moving around, i feel like part of an anthill, a disposable worker you could say.

But imagine if you lived in thailand, or some rural third world country. I think these different environments can affect how we see life, here in the modern world everyone is disconnected from each other, and constantly connected to their "responsibilities". Bills, work, respecting others, respecting the law, we really do live in a tight grid on so many levels. I do not think we humans were supposed to live this way.

But there could also be another reason we see superficiality in our modern lives, perhaps you are "anti-social" like me, and therefore, you much more time to observe and think about these ideas. For example, i am always looking at the logos of businesses around where i live, trying to see if there is some sort of message from, you know, a group in control.

If you are involved, if you have children, a girlfriend, play on a team, gamble, drink, and so on, the less you worry about your environment, I would assume.