An interesting lecture in London (human behaviour)

For those who may be interested, Peter Joseph presented a lecture at a College in London on July 25th as part of promoting the Zeitgeist Movement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8KBKHwxfxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsUYUTPlF2A

LOL THE INFANTS WERE TOUCHED HURR HURR

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This is a "Captain Obvious" talking about concepts that should be familiar to anyone with at least an Associates in America and merely high school elsewhere.

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

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That's the trick of this Zeitgeist stuff and, indeed, anybody else interested in engineering propaganda: tell people things they already know to make them feel confident, "empower" them with conspiracy-style cognitions, and you've got a legion of the willing on your hands.

In the videos posted, where are the conspiracies?

  On 8/1/2009 at 6:06 PM, Bread said:

 

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

 

Because we're human.

  On 8/1/2009 at 7:21 PM, Drahken said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 6:06 PM, Bread said:

 

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

 

 

Because we're human.

Care to expand?

Bread has already been brain-washed.

  On 8/1/2009 at 7:21 PM, Drahken said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 6:06 PM, Bread said:

 

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

 

 

Because we're human.

my daddy touched my butthole. that's why i'm on the penny.

zeitgeist is 90% BS.

  On 8/1/2009 at 7:47 PM, Bread said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 7:21 PM, Drahken said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 6:06 PM, Bread said:

 

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

 

 

Because we're human.

Care to expand?

getting to the "root" of what causes "abhorrent , corrupt behaviors" is exactly that. A root of human behavior. It's chemically wired into our brains and so even if we got rid of it at a societal level (which would be nearly impossible) it would still resubmerge.

I think most people already understand how fucked up things are, and have for thousands of years, learning how to cope with that is part of life.

its great when society changes directions (as we're doing so often these days), but when a well-to-do 1% (and not a powerful 1%) of the population starts to talk about undoing the crooked foundations of the world its really hard to take them seriously, because it seems like they don't understand how far-reaching and intertwined the world's most powerful (and unfortunate) systems are.

If you want to make a difference in something, by all means, pour your heart and soul into it, but you might want to choose something a bit more focused and easier to tackle than human behaviour, organised religion, the federal reserve, and government conspiracies, especially when your "movements" consist mostly of people who understand so little about these issues they need self-righteous youtube videos to keep them informed.

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getting to the "root" of what causes "abhorrent , corrupt behaviors" is exactly that. A root of human behavior. It's chemically wired into our brains and so even if we got rid of it at a societal level (which would be nearly impossible) it would still resubmerge.

I assume you mean an action someone might perform is chemically driven? I'll give you an example of how chemicals in the brain circuitry may come about. If you find yourself feeling angry about something, maybe someone you know hurt a loved one or you're girlfriend went off with another guy, the very chemical process which comes about is typical. Testosterone levels increase in your body - this is an automatic response of the body; which can influence what sort of actions you're going to take when you are in this angry and emotional state of mind. DNA and genes set about propensities, it's the surroundings which trigger these biological chemicals and responses we have. Look at the bigger picture, you can argue that the environment triggered the increase in testosterone levels in your body. It's the environment which shapes the behavior though, you don't just "get angry" all of a sudden because it's a biological, inherent thing to do because you're "just human, deal with it". There is always an environmental cause that makes you feel the way you are emotionally. So if an environment can be controlled to a certain extent, negative behaviors can be reduced if the correct approach to controlling that environment is taken.

A scarce environment, which is what money is founded upon creates a lot of corrupt situations in the world.. because the less resources/money there is in a system, the more you're going to have of people perpetuating negative behaviors in the very system itself. To stop scarcity, what can we use? Technology? Technology improves our lives, you only need to look around your house and look at almost everything electrical which helps "better" your life on a daily basis. What if we can optimize technologies to be put forward for social concern, and create an envorinoment of abundance to conquer a system based upon scarcity (like money) to suppress certain abhorrent and corrupt behaviors. Could this be plausible? With the use of science, it could work.

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I think most people already understand how fucked up things are, and have for thousands of years, learning how to cope with that is part of life.

its great when society changes directions (as we're doing so often these days), but when a well-to-do 1% (and not a powerful 1%) of the population starts to talk about undoing the crooked foundations of the world its really hard to take them seriously, because it seems like they don't understand how far-reaching and intertwined the world's most powerful (and unfortunate) systems are.

What are we, slaves to our genes and there's nothing we can do about it? Think about the environmental factors involved in shaping the human mind. Not enough people look at things in this direction.

There is no difference between educating yourself from a youtube video, or by attending lectures/reading books at a university. It's just a different type of tool that you are utilizing to learn with. Remember that because technologically, things are changing in terms of "what we learn with".. it really doesn't matter.

  On 8/2/2009 at 12:27 AM, 42Orange said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 7:47 PM, Bread said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 7:21 PM, Drahken said:

  On 8/1/2009 at 6:06 PM, Bread said:

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

 

 

Because we're human.

Care to expand?

 

getting to the "root" of what causes "abhorrent , corrupt behaviors" is exactly that. A root of human behavior. It's chemically wired into our brains and so even if we got rid of it at a societal level (which would be nearly impossible) it would still resubmerge.

this sense that there's an inevitability to bad human behaviour and even the promotion and worship of some of these behaviours .. principally greed (anne rand .. the selfish gene et al) ... has for so long (in modern society) been an excuse for those bad humans amongst us to revel in the free license this gives them to be bad ... we are now coming to understand that this is bS .. and humans wouldn't have emerged as a species without some strong positive attributes .. and that our less becomming genetic traits .. have only managed to be passed down and co-exist amongst our numbers by keeping at low levels within the population .. lest the parasite kills the beast so to speak ...

*yanoe ...

this is the first i have heard of this zeitgeist movement .. and probably the last video i'll bother watching one part of from them .. but still* ..

  On 8/2/2009 at 12:59 AM, Bread said:

 

A) What are we, slaves to our genes and there's nothing we can do about it?

B) Think about the environmental factors involved in shaping the human mind. Not enough people look at things in this direction.

A) At a fundamental level, we are slaves to our DNA because we are programmed to propogate the species.

B) The question of nature vs nurture has been around for as long as we've had psychology.

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There is no difference between educating yourself from a youtube video, or by attending lectures/reading books at a university. It's just a different type of tool that you are utilizing to learn with. Remember that because technologically, things are changing in terms of "what we learn with".. it really doesn't matter.

You're right, there is no difference. The one thing the internet has done is it has taught us the need to process information efficiently. We need to sort good information and bad information. This presentation just barely makes it out of the bad ctaegory as it will at least hopefully make people question a few things. However, the information presented is just a vague glossing over of a broad range of topics and deserves to be dismissed as true learning.

  On 8/1/2009 at 6:06 PM, Bread said:

  Quote

This is a "Captain Obvious" talking about concepts that should be familiar to anyone with at least an Associates in America and merely high school elsewhere.

I'm glad to see it's all very obvious to you about what was mentioned in the videos posted but why doesn't society put any of what has been mentioned into practice? Why are we only treating symptoms of ongoing problems and not getting to the root causes of abhorrent, corrupt behaviors? Is it really difficult to put into practice?

 

  Quote

That's the trick of this Zeitgeist stuff and, indeed, anybody else interested in engineering propaganda: tell people things they already know to make them feel confident, "empower" them with conspiracy-style cognitions, and you've got a legion of the willing on your hands.

In the videos posted, where are the conspiracies?

it is because (we) the americans or europeans, are mostly able and intelligent but at the same time extremely ignorant and suffer from a great case in inferiority complex

I'm sorry, but this Zeitgeist stuff is a bigger pile of shit than Fox News.

i am of the opinion of the last few posters... people are not intrinsically bad nor are we stuck in the same behaviour patterns. technology is mostly beneficial as it makes our lives easier but that's always going to come back to how much we've had them in our lives. a toaster is a useful thing but because it has always existed for all of us, it's easy to forget or take the toaster for granted.

different communities have different traits and Buddhist communities have generally on the whole been very thoughtful people... it doesn't take technology for this.. its just refined and evolved behaviour. if everyone was a Buddhist in this world it would be a good step closer to utopia.

i agree with inferiority complex regarding some common behaviours but i'd say that's also linked in with consumerism.. how people are perceived by what they own etc... sad stuff.

Its not that humans are born programmed to do bad things. We are born with free action, and it is inevitable no matter how glossy and happy and perfect our environment or society is for someone, somewhere to do something 'bad'.

  On 8/2/2009 at 5:08 AM, Drahken said:

Its not that humans are born programmed to do bad things. We are born with free action, and it is inevitable no matter how glossy and happy and perfect our environment or society is for someone, somewhere to do something 'bad'.

Exactly. Being human is being imperfect, you can't ignore this facet.

  On 8/2/2009 at 12:59 AM, Bread said:

There is always an environmental cause that makes you feel the way you are emotionally. So if an environment can be controlled to a certain extent, negative behaviors can be reduced if the correct approach to controlling that environment is taken.

I would agree that the environment is one of the biggest factors in influencing brain chemistry. But the point i was getting at, is that we have entire parts of our brain devoted to things like terratorialism fear and judgement. You cant stop people from "misusing" or teaching "misuse" of these deep human aspects. We can minimize bad behaviour through our environment, but to intentionally rewire society in this way isnt exactly spring cleaning, and borders or utopianism

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A scarce environment, which is what money is founded upon creates a lot of corrupt situations in the world.. because the less resources/money there is in a system, the more you're going to have of people perpetuating negative behaviors in the very system itself. To stop scarcity, what can we use? Technology? Technology improves our lives, you only need to look around your house and look at almost everything electrical which helps "better" your life on a daily basis. What if we can optimize technologies to be put forward for social concern, and create an envorinoment of abundance to conquer a system based upon scarcity (like money) to suppress certain abhorrent and corrupt behaviors. Could this be plausible? With the use of science, it could work

but the thing is, it's not money causing this, it's trade. You cant stop people from wanting things they dont have. And you cant stop people from resenting others for it. Technology can help to get rid of scarcity and thats what's happening right before our very eyes, and its the cause and cure for a lot of modern problems and issues. I dont see any need for dramatic reconfiguring of the way things work or the need to conform to the beliefs of zeitgeist associates to accomplish this. The very things they speak against are catalysts of this technological revolution we're in the throes of.

hey bread, I make more money than you

  On 8/2/2009 at 4:41 AM, Yegg said:

I'm sorry, but this Zeitgeist stuff is a bigger pile of shit than Fox News.

If something is unfamiliar to you then you might feel this way about a lot of things. I'd like to see what your proposals are for creating a better society than the one we have now, unless you like the current system the way it is where people suffer and die needlessly. I like to seek new ideas, and I try and learn about different points of view before calling them bullshit.

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A) At a fundamental level, we are slaves to our DNA because we are programmed to propogate the species.

To an extent only. DNA does not trigger direct commands to carry out an action, the environment will influence your actions. I'll take that quote used:

Dr Robert Sapolsky, Professor of Biology and Neurology at Stanford University:

"Genes are rarely about inevitability especially when it comes to humans, the brain or behavior. They're about vulnerability, propensities and tendencies."

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B) The question of nature vs nurture has been around for as long as we've had psychology.

Nature and Nurture go hand in hand. You'll find many people in the academic field who lean to one side of the spectrum, but from what I have read and researched, human nature is limited to a certain degree. You're not born as a blank slate, I agree that environment is very important because it's our surroundings that triggers behavior(s) in the first place.

  On 8/2/2009 at 5:08 AM, Drahken said:

Its not that humans are born programmed to do bad things. We are born with free action, and it is inevitable no matter how glossy and happy and perfect our environment or society is for someone, somewhere to do something 'bad'.

I don't accept that we are born inherently "bad", it doesn't make sense and has no basis at all. If you have a system that does not reward bad behavior, why would someone carry out something that would be determined as "bad" in the first place if you are not gaining anything from the act? The monetary system we live in rewards corrupt behavior - this is an important point as to why people come out with what you have said, they haven't lived in another system before where abhorrent behavior is not rewarded, you're unfamiliar with it.

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but the thing is, it's not money causing this, it's trade. You cant stop people from wanting things they dont have. And you cant stop people from resenting others for it.

How about an alternative system which is based upon science, technology and resource management for the benefit of all? If we create an abundance of products and materials, where is the need for trade, money or barter? Shouldn't we be continually striving for the next best thing? Utopia can never be attained, it's a myth entirely because things are always becoming more and more emergent in society as the years pass - you will never hit perfection, it's impossible.. things keep on improving. Soon, technological unemployment, where people lose their jobs to machine automation will become a big problem in future unless people address this. Politicians don't think about this, and they're meant to be there for YOU in this system.

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Technology can help to get rid of scarcity and thats what's happening right before our very eyes, and its the cause and cure for a lot of modern problems and issues. I dont see any need for dramatic reconfiguring of the way things work or the need to conform to the beliefs of zeitgeist associates to accomplish this. The very things they speak against are catalysts of this technological revolution we're in the throes of.

If there is an abundance of resources, where is the need for money? You walk into your supermarket and there is a price tag on everything - but it's right there before your eyes, the food that you want, but you have to "work" for it.. doesn't this sound backwards to people? This system doesn't encourage the benefits of an abundant environment, because people profit more on scarcity. This is why we don't see electronically powered cars on our motorways, because it is more profitable (and backwards) to profit on peak oil, the scarcity of a fossil fuel, rather than creating a whole new transportation system which promotes abundance. Money strangles this, it's like a parasite not letting anything grow to benefit everyone without obligations or a price tag.

What I'd like to see is other people's solutions. Criticizing an idea is all well and good, but without an alternative solution yourself, you don't deliver anything to the table, and you're paying lip service by maintaining a pathetic system we have now.

  On 8/2/2009 at 12:39 PM, Bread said:

 

If there is an abundance of resources, where is the need for money? You walk into your supermarket and there is a price tag on everything - but it's right there before your eyes, the food that you want, but you have to "work" for it.. doesn't this sound backwards to people?

actually its you that sounds backwards here.

  On 8/2/2009 at 12:56 PM, messiaen said:

  On 8/2/2009 at 12:39 PM, Bread said:

 

If there is an abundance of resources, where is the need for money? You walk into your supermarket and there is a price tag on everything - but it's right there before your eyes, the food that you want, but you have to "work" for it.. doesn't this sound backwards to people?

 

actually its you that sounds backwards here.

why?