on the topic of compression and limiting

how much is a good amount

from what i understand limiting and compression are a necessary force when it comes to good production

but when overused they can "destroy" a recording

do you think that they destroy music when overused?

personally i've got a long work that i've just recently been able to hear in a different way - and i've realized that i used WAY too much limiter. in the short run, the music sounds better and louder. but since it's a huge work, it's been limited over and over so now it sounds like there is some kind of unseen wall blocking the volume.

it's disheartening because the music is interesting and there is little i can do to repair the problem. there are a shitload of layers and probably at least 200 separate files that have been combined over time to create it.

anyway, does anybody know how to fix the problem in my case? it seems like theres no way.

also, how much can headphones (a good pair) help the producer?

I've been using a cheap pair and I'm starting to wonder if that hasn't harmed my ability to perceive the music

  On 12/23/2009 at 7:17 PM, vamos scorcho said:

how much is a good amount

depends entirely on the piece. i generally compare by the snare transient, its the easiest to max out without getting distortion.

  Quote

from what i understand limiting and compression are a necessary force when it comes to good production

but when overused they can "destroy" a recording

do you think that they destroy music when overused?

any kind of limiting distorts music but it's a case of everyone does it.. i like it when my tracks are as loud as everybody elses track, which can be difficult to achieve in the beginning without considerable distortion. a good piece of advice is to mix on low volume, with loud settings and limit the end result just a tiny bit.

  Quote

it's disheartening because the music is interesting and there is little i can do to repair the problem. there are a shitload of layers and probably at least 200 separate files that have been combined over time to create it.

don't master and mix at the same time

  Quote

anyway, does anybody know how to fix the problem in my case? it seems like theres no way.

if you've carved away too much of the stone, you can't put it back on can you?

  Quote

also, how much can headphones (a good pair) help the producer?

it's much less a case of have a good pair than know the pair you've got. i got a shit cheap pair but i know how a subby bass is supposed to sound, how hihats, how snares sound on it etc, and that is much more helpful. a good ear is the producer's best friend. listen to shitload of music on it, compare it to your tracks, run spectrum analysers on tracks you like etc

If you want to get some of the transients back, you can employ an upward expander. It's almost like a reverse compressor in that it will momentarily amplify the beginning of a sound by a certain ratio. This will reinstate or create some additional snap and impact to your sounds. It should be pretty successful as long as you haven't completely brick-walled the file.

A really good resource on the use of limiting, compression, and expansion would be Bob Katz's book 'Mastering Audio'. He makes a very good case for the use of these tools and he really knows his shit.

By the way, I want to address Vamos' original assertion that limiting and compression are necessary for good production. This is simply not true. Bruce Swedien, the engineer for Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' is famous for his advocacy of using virtually no compression whatsoever. Of course, we all know how good that album sounds. Just throw 'Billy Jean' into a waveform analyzer and look at how much headroom and space he's allowed and the effect that has on the drum sound.

On the other hand, there are engineers like Michael H. Brauer who are amazingly masterful in the heavy use of compression. Go to his website and read the description of his multi-bus compressor setup. He uses a highly idiosyncratic system of compression that he has been developing over the last 20 years. He understands the use of compression in a way that is going to take me some years to get my head around.

I suppose dynamic control is one of, if not the primary, elements that defines an engineer's style. It's an art, that contains an astounding amount of depth. More than one might think.

On another note, do some reading on the Loudness Wars.