Don't Ask Don't Tell repealed

Finally, after years and years, the US military has stepped in line with the fine and feisty fighting forces of the Commonwealth in embracing its brave queer servicemen and women: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/12/18/MN9O1GS7KM.DTL&type=gaylesbian

Good on you, Obama. Congratulations, gay and lesbian servicepeople of the US!

It's still not perfect - actual homosexual behaviour is still listed as a Court Martial offense, and the Defense of Marriage Act means that the long-term partners of gay and lesbian servicepeople won't be eligable for any kind of survivor benefits. That's in rather stark contrast to how we do things in this country, where the civil partners of our servicepeople are even eligable for shared accomodation on base.

But it's a big, important first step - and one I'll be raising a glass to today. Join me, won't you?

The times they are a changin'. Joyrex even let you back into watmm!

i'm still bitter as fuck about the whole thing (not ian c coming back, dadt ) but i can't complain, i'm relieved it's finally gone. only bad thing to come out of this: unfortunately we'll now have more voluntary cannon fodder

Yeah isn't it great? Now fags and dykes can kill little brown babies for oil too!

  On 12/20/2010 at 12:04 PM, chenGOD said:

Yeah isn't it great? Now fags and dykes can kill little brown babies for oil too!

lol yeah let's abolish the military

do you ever STOP being a staggering douche?

Chengawd

Are you trying to say that you support the use of US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq?

And yes, I would be down with abolishing the military for offensive purposes. If the US wants to keep a standing army for the purposes of defense, that's entirely their right to do so.

  On 12/20/2010 at 12:18 PM, chenGOD said:

Are you trying to say that you support the use of US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq?

No, I'm simply saying that you're a cock and by far my least favourite moderator on WATMM. This topic has nothing to do with Iraq and Afghanistan, DADT is a travesty that has plagued the US military since long before those conflicts began. Leave the anti-war shit out of it - even Awepittance could join me in raising a metaphorical glass to this landmark ruling.

Oh no, Iain C doesn't like me, whatever shall I do. I'll have to go cry myself to sleep at night. To be fair, I did like Aleczandah less than you, so i suppose you're not my least favorite poster.

You know why they did this? They're not gonna send the homosexuals to the front right away. Instead they'll cycle out troops from places like Korea and Japan (where the soldiers on tour are usually lower ranking and don't have as much pull as soldiers stationed in Germany or soldiers visiting Canadian bases) to Iraq and then send the fresh meat to replace them.

This act is all about encouraging more people to enlist, which, as Awepittance said - gives the US military more cannon fodder. Hooray!

Oh OK, I guess when you put it like that the military should be able to discriminate against queers. You know, for their own good. Cock.

Please try and understand, the military didn't do this out of some sudden belief in the universality of rights for all. They did it because they need more people to die, so that some guys with a lot of money can make even more.

Sorry my reply took so long to write, I was trying to keep it civil.

I'm not turning this into a political discussion. Gays and lesbians should have the right to serve openly, now they have it. If you don't think there are ALREADY queers fighting and dying every day, you're deluding yourself. Now they simply don't have to lie about it. You can speculate about the motivations if you want. I'll just be happy that another piece of discriminatory legislation has been struck down. Next up - the DOMA. Or do you have a reason to support that, too?

It doesn't really matter what the motivation is. You don't have to believe in God to appreciate pretty flowers... although you might do actually, I wouldn't know.

  On 12/20/2010 at 12:44 PM, Iain C said:

I'm not turning this into a political discussion. Gays and lesbians should have the right to serve openly, now they have it. If you don't think there are ALREADY queers fighting and dying every day, you're deluding yourself. Now they simply don't have to lie about it. You can speculate about the motivations if you want. I'll just be happy that another piece of discriminatory legislation has been struck down. Next up - the DOMA. Or do you have a reason to support that, too?

I would like to keep as many people out of the military as possible, and by discriminating against them the US military had done a wonderful job of doing that.

Yes of course there are homosexuals in the military already. I see no reason to encourage more to join up and bomb the shit out of people "different" from us.

I think I've made my views on the rights of homosexuals to marry pretty clear in threads past with playbynumbers, when proposition 8 was an issue. In case you missed it though, I fully believe in their right to marriage on equal terms with heterosexuals.

OK, so it's alright to discriminate on the basis of gender, sexuality, race, religion etc. as long as it achieves your political ends. That's an interesting value to hold.

Agree to disagree?

I don't really have any further point to make - except that if Chen's that bothered about keeping people out of the military, there are better ways to do it than banning them based solely on their sexuality. Like educating them on why he believes it's wrong or immoral.

Just don't do it in this thread, please. This thread is about celebrating the rights of our queer brothers to live their lives as they choose without discrimination.

That is clearly not what I am saying. If you can point to the phrase that might be confusing you?

I am saying that this is a false victory, and that people who have been discriminated against precisely because they are "different" should see the hypocrisy in joining the US military, whose goal is to go and kill/defeat people who are "different".

But fine, we'll do it your way: Yay fags! Now you can blow up people who are different from you!

Enough. Here's a line. Below this line it's just drinks and partying. I'll put a record on below the line.

Anything that moves attitudes towards sexual orientation away from the dark ages is a good thing. Here's to that .

iain- the military isn't discriminating against gays

chen- military just sux

iain- but they're not discriminating

chen- still sux

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this is all i see

edit_ i actually agree with both of you

i dunno why gays wanted this to became removed so much....... to fight in a war is not my life goal