the venus project

It's 2011 & we still don't have those futuristic white dome cities with water & palm trees & flying cars everywhere. If we don't get some of those before too long this is going to be one disappointing future.

sayin!

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:13 PM, Cryptowen said:

It's 2011 & we still don't have those futuristic white dome cities with water & palm trees & flying cars everywhere. If we don't get some of those before too long this is going to be one disappointing future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_project

jacques fresco is a fucking genius. speaking of which, new Zeitgeist movie is due out like this week or something no?

*awaits flour and water response*

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:19 PM, kaini said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_project

This is a good start. Now we just need to get those all over the place, and some robots to take care of all manual labour so a society of genetically enhanced immortals can spend all of their time pursuing the arts & terraforming the Moon.

cornwall in the motherfucking house again

the main problem lies in destroying religion and getting rid of skumbags like dick cheney/the bush empire/military industrial complex

the defense coma-pies

the endless stream of mean white guys and the world's biggest corp rot nation -lockheed martin

where to begin

we need the corporate wars to begin NOW

the people vs the corporations

but i think sadly we are too divided by money and religion

humans are on the cusp of being incredible and then,,,it always fails

property ownership etc

hey wait i sound like a communist

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:13 PM, Cryptowen said:

It's 2011 & we still don't have those futuristic white dome cities with water & palm trees & flying cars everywhere. If we don't get some of those before too long this is going to be one disappointing future.

fuckin' A

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:19 PM, ryanmcallister said:

jacques fresco is a fucking genius. speaking of which, new Zeitgeist movie is due out like this week or something no?

No he ISN'T. What did he invent that other's haven't thought of like...50 years ago? He's just popular in this time when people want utopian projects to see at least some purpose in life.

did we just have a really long thread discussion about all of this a mere couple weeks ago?

good luck creating a utopian civilization when half the planet can't get over the fact that we're all equal in that we're dying in this shit-hole together.

idiotic. resources are limited, we would need to get our population down to maybe 500million people in order that everyone can live a comfortable middle-class life.

  On 1/12/2011 at 12:24 AM, gaarg said:

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:19 PM, ryanmcallister said:

jacques fresco is a fucking genius. speaking of which, new Zeitgeist movie is due out like this week or something no?

 

No he ISN'T. What did he invent that other's haven't thought of like...50 years ago? He's just popular in this time when people want utopian projects to see at least some purpose in life.

Fresco is merely the messenger of these ideas - he isn't "special" nor does he want to be idolised in any way - too right!

He has invented a lot of medical equipment as well as aircraft components. If you watch this interview he has with King back in 1974, right at the start of this clip, there is a full breakdown of his work/employment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCH0BQ2nSMo

None such thing as utopian - you know that perfection can never be attained, so why project like? It's just a better direction. If I find or discover a better solution for a social system, I'll be interested.

  On 1/12/2011 at 12:46 AM, Al Hounos said:

idiotic. resources are limited, we would need to get our population down to maybe 500million people in order that everyone can live a comfortable middle-class life.

No, it seems you may not have done a lot of research into the Venus Project. We realise that there is a finite number of resources - if we manage them intelligently, in accordance with the carrying capacity of the Earth by utilising current technologies, we can make distribution of goods and services a lot easier whilst maintaining a key focus on the number of resources available. This money system is idiotic - to think that you can carry on consuming, not caring about resource depletion, is really screwed up. In the words of Michael Ruppert (and many other notable activists) - "You can't have infinite growth on a finite planet" - the monetary system perpetuates this. What do you base your stats on as far as population is concerned? - why 500 million people? I'm interested..

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:19 PM, ryanmcallister said:

new Zeitgeist movie is due out like this week or something no?

trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYLLFpNn4lM

300 screenings globally, commencing from Jan 15th up to Jan 25th organised by the movement (map): http://www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com/zmap

I understand the film will be uploaded to the net by around Jan 25th. Lets hope the media takes note of all this next week. People are saying with the simultaneous screenings being arranged next week, we have some how set a world record?? Not quite sure about that..

Line up for the film: James Gilligan, Robert Sapolsky, Mike Ruppert, Max Keiser, Richard Wilkinson --- there are many more but these are the ones I have heard about being in the film.

is there a plan for the inevitable time when someone or some group attempts to fuck all of this up?

because its going to happen.

from what i understand, the plan is that no one will, because in this new model no one will grow to be a sociopath.

yeah we just had this thread.

Fresco is a nutjob - read these opening paragraphs from an essay by him (on the very first page of the venus project website).

  Quote

Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities of a high technological society.

 

A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all.

 

Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

The first section of text in bold is simply just ridiculous, unless Fresco has found a way to break those pesky laws of thermodynamics.

The second shows either a limited knowledge of history, or a willful distortion of the facts. Yes it is absolutely true that the US ramped up production of aircraft and other war materiel to sell to European nations. They were able to do that because many industries converted from their original manufacturing goals to produce this war materiel. It's called "guns or butter" or technically "opportunity cost". It's something you learn at the very beginning of micro-economics. So I'm gonna go with willful distortion of facts.

There's still no answer to what happens when resources are scarce - and the idea of "re-education" is ridiculous. What will you do with those who refuse to go to "re-education" centres, or those who hoard resources?

To the topics subject, yes, the Venus project is an utopian dream. Emphasis on dream. Technology is not simply here yet where it would be possibly to strive towards it. Would I like for the future to have something like it, yes, but right now it's just not feasible. The current system is just too ingrained in society and it will take a lot more than a few message board posters to change it. We as a species are still too dependent on our monkey genes to evolve into these ego-less, rationalistic and altruistic beings.

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:23 PM, Cryptowen said:

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:19 PM, kaini said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_project

 

This is a good start. Now we just need to get those all over the place, and some robots to take care of all manual labour so a society of genetically enhanced immortals can spend all of their time pursuing the arts & terraforming the Moon.

I wish they would allow me to scurry around naked and inebriated in that place...scaring the visitors up on the boardwalk

I don't think Fresco is a nutjob, I think what he says most times makes a lot of sense, mostly when he talks about how the enviroment conditions viced behaviour. I do think he has very good points. but for someone who puts a lot of thought into justifying the philosophy he has very little to say about what could go wrong, also their "plan" to put this in motion is ridiculous: build a theme park. so i can't take it very seriously.

  On 1/12/2011 at 7:22 AM, chenGOD said:

yeah we just had this thread.

Fresco is a nutjob - read these opening paragraphs from an essay by him (on the very first page of the venus project website).

 

  Quote

Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities of a high technological society.

 

A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all.

 

Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

 

The first section of text in bold is simply just ridiculous, unless Fresco has found a way to break those pesky laws of thermodynamics.

 

The second shows either a limited knowledge of history, or a willful distortion of the facts. Yes it is absolutely true that the US ramped up production of aircraft and other war materiel to sell to European nations. They were able to do that because many industries converted from their original manufacturing goals to produce this war materiel. It's called "guns or butter" or technically "opportunity cost". It's something you learn at the very beginning of micro-economics. So I'm gonna go with willful distortion of facts.

 

There's still no answer to what happens when resources are scarce - and the idea of "re-education" is ridiculous. What will you do with those who refuse to go to "re-education" centres, or those who hoard resources?

I don't think you're making good points there, in the first part i believe he refers to things like geothermal and solar energy, if properly harnessed they could probably be enough to cater for the current energy needs of the planet.

For the second bit, i had to wiki those terms and it says the phrase comes from WWI but that doesn't matter, what fresco is saying (or at least what i would take from it) is that money is often a constraint even if things need to get done, that there wasn't enough money to buy that many planes, but certainly the materials and workforce to do it was there, maybe i'm wrong (do tell if i am) but i seem to recall that in wwii the us govt. kinda forced factories to produce war stuff, with no payback because it was war times.

If I were to criticize that paragraph i'd say that he's falling into the same trap that market fanatics do when they assume that the free market will take care of any problem, his answer for everything is "technology will solve it".

No such thing as a limitless supply of energy. He needs to be more precise.

Resources were diverted from many products to one product. Shipbuilders, auto manufacturers and other industries retooled their production lines to manufacture war materiel. So the US increased output in airplanes, but decreased output in automobiles, ships, trains etc. They have enough resources for one thing. You can't have everything. That's fresco's fallacy.

And yes his answer is "technology will solve everything", much like laissez-faire capitalists and their "free-markets for all!". There is never going to be a one size fits everything solution.

Just to clarify, I am not a proponent of free markets for distributing profit. I believe profits should be in the hands of the people. Markets are an excellent means of determining distribution of goods and services however.

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:19 PM, kaini said:

  On 1/11/2011 at 11:13 PM, Cryptowen said:

It's 2011 & we still don't have those futuristic white dome cities with water & palm trees & flying cars everywhere. If we don't get some of those before too long this is going to be one disappointing future.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_project

I've still got the ticket in my walley.

  On 1/12/2011 at 11:10 AM, chenGOD said:

No such thing as a limitless supply of energy.

meet Gliocladium roseum.

it's a endophytic, saprophytic, and parasitic fungus all in one that was discovered in a south american rainforest.

this bad boy eats cellulose for dinner and produces hydrocarbon waste material that is shockingly similar in structure

to diesel fuel.

the fact that it can digest cellulose and do this is pretty remarkable. montana state university are investigating it as a source of biofuel and although the current scientific trend is leaning towards bacterial colonization to produce material (i.e. citric acid, no it dose not come from lemons), fungi are nicer in that they are hardy organisms that will expand exponentially and continue consuming food ad infinitum until something stops them. and well, cellulose is found in every plant on the planet. this won't be the first time fungi are cultivated for their waste product.

enjoy your bread 'n beer.

funny all this talk these days about recycling and renewable resources.. fungi are the ultimate recyclers and bring the dead back to the living.

scientists should further investigate fungi and bacteria as potential energy sources.. and with genetic sequencing, engineering, and recombination things are about to get extremely interesting.