psyching yourself out

I'm sure it's standard affair for most musicians. Almost bipolar opinions of you're own output. finishing a track and feeling as thought it's the greatest thing ever and you must be channelling the powers of dead composition heavyweights. then the next day you're paranoid that actually you suck balls and people only humour you because they don't want to break your heart, just like when you was younger and convinced yourself that you was mentally handicapped and no one was telling you....

I seem to get it more often as I get older, cocky attitude has gone and given way to a very nervous and self critical disposition. When a cool opportunity comes up, or a label asks me for some tracks, I get really worked up and stressed out, concerned that my offerings will fall drastically short of the expected standard. I'll switch from really loving something I've made to hating it in a second, very strange.

Think maybe it's that I feel as though I'm pinning too many expectaons on the projects I do, maybe as part of just feeling older, and really wanting to "level up" so to speak before I hit my third decade. have had some real shitty experiences with trying to make some type of life from music, ripped off and taken for a ride... Concerned that my mental position is a self defense mechanism in order to protect myself from further possible disappointments.. Hmmm

Anyway, who else gets these mental obstacles, why do you think you get them, and how do you get around them?

I think a little stress about your work is important in constantly pushing yourself to continuously improve artistically with your production, song writing, performances, visual side of things etc. etc. If you don't stress out about trying to progress further with everything I don't know how you can ever feel content with accomplishments.

Simply doubting yourself is not really beneficial. I believe what separates a bad artist from a good artist is how much love, time and thought into their craft. I don't think there is any "god given talent" involved or that particular people have some type of gift that others don't to be one of the chosen few making good art or what have you.

Gain confidence by knowing that you pushed the envelope has hard and tastefully as you could at the time, try to make sure that baby see it's potential exposure and move on to the next mission impossible.

Work hard, play hard, do your best to challenge yourself and also make sure your having as much fun as possible. Being an artist is all about satisfying your own creative desires, don't worry about peoples opinions as much as that your seeing your current potential fulfilled at the given time.

Now the promotional side of things is a different beast entirely, deciding which tracks to feature, which tracks are really getting the most response, what album to push over the other etc. is an after the fact different individual mindset approach that you have to look at in extroversion. Everything else should be a very introverted process without too much outside static.

Anyway I hope some of that ramble is relevant and helps you think about things in a different light or something. I really need a few hours of sleep.

Welcome to my world.

1) When you are in a manic productive phase, spend every free moment you have in the studio. Your perception of the quality of your output will be skewed towards the positive (hey, that's mania) but you will, in fact, be producing your best work. Ride the train until it runs out of steam.

2) When you crash, avoid your studio and DO NOT listen to your music. Acknowledge what is happening, but keep the faith: you've made good music before, it seems to improve the more you do it, and someday you'll be back in the pilot's seat.

3) Find some critical listeners. I've met and maintained relationships with several people whom I respect and trust to tell me exactly what they think of my work. They provide a good average, a buffer of reality for your moods to oscillate about.

It feels great if they all agree that a song is good, but it's also reassuring to see their opinions vary widely. It shows you that one song can mean so many things to others and helps validate your own wavering opinion.

4) There are far more people listening to and enjoying your music than you'll ever hear about.

5) I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but don't attempt to make a living off your music. You'll approach your art from the wrong angle.

Not really for me. I don't make music or play instruments or any of that with the goal of making great art, but just because it's something I really enjoy doing.

Good points everywhere!

I dont think I want to make a living from my music as such. That would make it a job, and I never enjoy any job I have.. But I do dream of finding a job that is in some way audio related. Have been searching for a new job recently, and at the moment I'm really keen to find work as a studio assistant, or music tech teaching assistant, something like that. Not making money from my music, just earning a living through music, if that makes sense.

@BFC, some really interesting points, and you're entirely right about splitting processes into almost self indulgent, and externally influenced. It's certainly a good approach to take. Im sure that some of my tracks that I like the most are not ones that get the best response from other people. The strange thing with this though is that there are so many external influences to take account of. For example, a track that translates really well to a listener on a CD (HAH) will not always translate on a dance floor, and so on. Its a genuinely tricky toss up. I normally just leave it to other people to decided. Send a label a bunch of things and let them choose what they think will work. I'm normally happy with the decision. And in a live context, well its normally pretty easy to tell if a track translates well to a crowd or not.

I dont think I can say that I ever had a "dont give a fuck" attitude towards this stuff, and honestly I dont believe anyone who says they do. I think its human nature to be self doubting and critical from time to time. But I have noticed that I get more self critical as I get older.

I used to be well into biking, BMX and MTB, but there was a point when I just lost my bottle completely. Suddenly the risks of launching myself off some stupid step-up became all too apparent. A lot of the time it feels the same, where perhaps I'm so concerned about protecting my already fragile self opinion that I shy away from good opportunities, the same as I'd avoid a big drop for fear of snapping my ankles.

a magic trick will appear very different to the magician doing it imho

as long as it has some individual creative merit dont worry too much and if you doubt it move on to something else then go back to it later, you cant be in the same mood all the time and you may have more of an idea how progress things after a refresh

was it richie hawtin that said your only really creative 20% of the time or something

  On 3/24/2011 at 1:58 PM, TechDiff said:

Anyway, who else gets these mental obstacles, why do you think you get them, and how do you get around them?

phenylethylamines

i have this problem where i get really good ideas and i feel like i can never make the music actually live up to those ideas and i dont want them to be anything less than what i imagined so i end up not making anything at all

The only time I really self doubt heavily when i'm writing is when i'm listening to a lot of other shit at the time. I draw all these comparisons and end up trying to make shit I might really enjoy listening to but don't really like trying to make (anything relaxed or earthy. Shit like Boom Bip or Amon Tobin or whatever) and really can't make at all. So I get all mixed up and forget what i'm here to do- write cheesy haunted house shit.

So when i'm writing I just tend to listen to a lot of shit i'm working on over and over. Oh and Tipper.

  On 3/24/2011 at 7:37 PM, MAXIMUS MISCHIEF said:

i have this problem where i get really good ideas and i feel like i can never make the music actually live up to those ideas and i dont want them to be anything less than what i imagined so i end up not making anything at all

  Quote

"I should advise you to put it all down as beautifully as you can - in some beautifully bound book," Jung instructed. "It will seem as if you were making the visions banal — but then you need to do that — then you are freed from the power of them… Then when these things are in some precious book you can go to the book & turn over the pages & for you it will be your church — your cathedral — the silent places of your spirit where you will find renewal. If anyone tells you that it is morbid or neurotic and you listen to them — then you will lose your soul — for in that book is your soul."

--Jung

You guys got issues.

  On 3/24/2011 at 7:37 PM, MAXIMUS MISCHIEF said:

i have this problem where i get really good ideas and i feel like i can never make the music actually live up to those ideas and i dont want them to be anything less than what i imagined so i end up not making anything at all

I promise you the only way you can really get there is by dropping this attitude and just producing like a maniac. But to do that you have to love creating, so maybe that ain't for you.

  On 3/24/2011 at 7:49 PM, od++ said:

The only time I really self doubt heavily when i'm writing is when i'm listening to a lot of other shit at the time. I draw all these comparisons and end up trying to make shit I might really enjoy listening to but don't really like trying to make (anything relaxed or earthy. Shit like Boom Bip or Amon Tobin or whatever) and really can't make at all. So I get all mixed up and forget what i'm here to do- write cheesy haunted house shit.

 

So when i'm writing I just tend to listen to a lot of shit i'm working on over and over. Oh and Tipper.

Oi! Welcome back!

And to TechDiff, it sounds like you are stressing out a bit much over it. You obviously have what it takes to not only make fantastic tracks, but ones that are good enough that labels badger you for them. There are messageboards like this one and more that are full-stocked with people that would love to be in that spot.

Just don't second guess yourself. I find that when I second guess myself with my music (i.e. changing something with the tracks after debating it) that I usually regret it. And don't sweat the small stuff. 60% or 65% velocity on those offbeat high hats? Does .00000000001 gain in db for hi hats really make a difference in the quality of the track? No, the music is still quality either way.

Now finish that damn EP already.

  On 3/24/2011 at 7:37 PM, MAXIMUS MISCHIEF said:

i have this problem where i get really good ideas and i feel like i can never make the music actually live up to those ideas and i dont want them to be anything less than what i imagined so i end up not making anything at all

ah yes this is me 800%

or when trying to finish a track creating 10 different tracks from that one and so on and so on

good thread. i had this problem where some people said they thought my music was great mindblowing shit and all this. and until that point i'd had no trouble making it or enjoying making it, it wasn't a second thought at all to play it for others and chill and have fun. and then all of a sudden i was fucking SCREWED when people said it was good!!!!! :braindance: :braindance: :braindance: because i was trying to repeat what had given me some 'success' or positive opinion and then i FUCKING BLEW IT!!!!!

so now i'm fucked. the only way to go is fucking straight up, any other direction will lead to stagnancy.

so any possible idea of something to do has to be avoided. and i can't listen to my own stuff. or care. the less i care the better. the more fun i have making it the better. the less rules i pay attention to the better.

any rule i try to adhere to is just fucking me up and ruining my life. the whole idea now is to put those words and positive / negative critical opinions in a box and burn it. and then do what i was doing in the first place, fucking around with music for fun. not trying to accomplish anything or get a reaction or get noticed or have people like me ETC.

I really liked acidphakists advice above. i think those bits of advice could really help me and maybe others.

and then sharing the music, someone please needs to work out what is the best way to share your music when you are done with it. there really is no point it seems like unless you believe it will make people happy or make you money.

OK acidphakist. your website is how i want to distribute. cool shit. well done.

i say the less you care and the more fun you're having, the less you're thinking, the less stress you're feeling, the better the music will be.

SCOTT WALKER - doesn't EVER listen to his own music once he's done producing it. the only place he listens to it is in the studio. i think this is GENIUS advice that should be followed by anyone who is taking this thing seriously. it's the best way to go.

the best time to get negatively psyched out is when you are perfecting tracks. the part where you go crazy and make the music notes andbeats is different.

but when you are EQing and cleaning everything up, that is an appropriate time to hate yourself and your music, and to feel the stress from the amount of work you have to do to make it done.

Oh yeah totally!!

While I'm making the music, that bits easy!! I fkn love playing about with rhythms, and just working through one bar at a time. Gives me a massive kick! But yeah it's the point where you sit back and go "ok it's written, now to mix the fucker" and all of a sudden I really regret going mental with little sounds everywhere, and a load of different bass patches etc etc.

I think the bit of advice which I try to tell myself (and don't always fail) and maybe of some benefit to others is to not get too worked up by comparing your sound to that of a proper release. While people tend to debate how much affect a mastering engineer should have on the final output, it's certain that a well mastered release will sound incredibly balanced and consistent, thanks a lot to the mastering chaps.

But the main point is, more than anything, when I don't feel like I'm enjoying myself, I just leave it and do something else that I do enjoy at that moment in time. Normally that's opening a new project and start playing about with ideas again! Soon enough I have a finished track that needs to be mixed and the whole process can start over, YAY!

short anecdote that might add something to the thread:

i was slaving away on this album, 40-50 minute full length, intending for it to be my best music yet.

and i really worked hard, got into it, went deep and stuff. anyway, after 4-5 months of this process, now i find myself disgusted with the whole thing apart from a few tracks, and i have to just let it go. it sucks but i was too holed up in some kind of selfish prison of thought of what it 'should be,' or something, and it killed most of what i made.

i was getting too technical trying to make it sound perfect / professional that the music itself got shit up. which sucks, i mean, it seriously pains me to even type these words but i know it's true. fucking pity.

listen to jung, vamous.

edit: in plain english, at a certain point you're just microwaving your own poop. (like autechre, but that's another thread...)

'my therapist says Jung was a no good hack!' - in the voice of Woody Allen.

anyway.

jung gets a lot of shit... but in all honesty, he's like any Big Name: some good ideas, some human failings, some stupid bullshit. listen carefully, then sift.

  On 3/25/2011 at 6:19 AM, hahathhat said:

edit: in plain english, at a certain point you're just microwaving your own poop. (like autechre, but that's another thread...)

exactly. like, if it's not there already then it's hopeless. but think about this:

you can take the worst song ever, take a 2 second snippet. like turning poop into a worthwhile ingredient..

well, i guess yeah, like autechre. that's the whole idea though. that's why it's great to be into electronic. we don't have to follow the standard rules of songwriting / music making.

  On 3/25/2011 at 6:25 AM, hahathhat said:

jung gets a lot of shit... but in all honesty, he's like any Big Name: some good ideas, some human failings, some stupid bullshit. listen carefully, then sift.

i agree. same about Freud.

i read "man and his symbols" and it was great. i really think you'd dig it, vamos.... i have a feeling.

edit: the version i had was a big coffee table book with great color pictures. i'd say that's the best way... internet shows some b&w paperbacks... yuck.

edit II: thar she blows

sounds interesting. thanks for the recommendation.