Learning Spectrum Analyzers to mix correctly

Hello everybody. its the first time im using spectrum analyzers in order to help me put sounds correctly in the mix and some help would be invaluable. Here ive got 2 images of spectrums for 2 pads that are placed on separate channels. I understand the general idea behind the frequencies that show the body of each pad. What id like to know is, what to conclude from each spectrum, and which is the range of frequencies according to both spectrums where 2 pads are supposed to have conflict when playing together. as i said im just starting to learn this stuff, so i assumed that 2 pads have same range of frequencies on 250-700Hz and made a cut there on one pad, also used a stereo tool to make the sound more narrow, towards mono that is, so that the Correlation indication on Ozone does not tend towards "-1" and play around "0" and "1". please correct me if im wrong and write down the correct frequencies. please feel free to suggest your owns ways if you can.

Pad A

Pad B

im kind of noobish in this area as well, and havent used either of these analyzers (one is paz and the other is ozone you say?) but looking at them side by side, you can see that even after you cut some of that one pad out, it still occupies some of the same frequencies taht the other one does. so maybe instead of making it mono, try and stereo pan both pads in different areas and that might help.

the deeper i was cutting in the 250-700Hz area the more 2 pads sounded better together, so thats why i needed to know if im doing wrong, if yes, what i should be doing instead or what else i could do. yes, just like you say, panning can help. but the main pad sounds good with the rest of the track as it is, unless i do as you say and automate it at the point of the piece where these 2 pads play alone.

you might want to consider automating the cut and/or panning at the point in the track when the 2 pads play together, this way when either of the pads are playing on their own, they wont be losing any frequencies unecessarily (unless of course there is some other sound occupying that frquency other than the other pad)

  On 8/12/2011 at 4:12 PM, mollekula said:

the deeper i was cutting in the 250-700Hz area the more 2 pads sounded better together

Using your ears is the right way.

  On 8/12/2011 at 4:38 PM, illfly mandog said:

  On 8/12/2011 at 4:12 PM, mollekula said:

the deeper i was cutting in the 250-700Hz area the more 2 pads sounded better together

 

Using your ears is the right way.

Thats a great advice, ive known this rule for many years now. After all, the music written is the result of what the ears and the soul want. Its just i need to get deeper into more professional way of mixing my works. at least the musical ideas are wonderful and i need to improve the sound quality by means of correct mixdown. does an anylizer provide a valuable information of the nature of each sound? If yes, where can it help me when mixing, and generally anything that you would like to add or correct, please feel free to do so. Im just starting to learn this stuff anyway, so any kind of positive criticism is welcome

i think you're on the right track, your ears will tell you when something sounds off, but they wont necessarily tell you how to how to improve on something, at least not as much as a graphical analyzation of the frequencies which is just a visual representation of what your ears are hearing anyway. having a visual aid allows you to narrow in to smaller of a scale and micromanage the mixdown.

Kinda difficult to tell what's going on from those small pics. Looks like both parts have quite a lot of energy in the 250 range which might be why they're rubbing a little bit. But tbh, I'm really having to squint to see those pics.

One thought, are your running either pad through reverb? I'm assuming the analysies are pre verb if you are. Might be worth checking after the verb as well, just to see what the frequency spectrum is like then.

I think, as you already hinted, subtle bits of automation to keep the pads full sounding when on their own, and reigned in a bit when everything else is going would be a good idea. I love making great big pad sounds and basking in stacked ninths, but put some bass line, drums etc underneath and it all becomes a big swamp. getting a big pad part to fit into a track is quite tricky I find. Very careful EQing all the way.

as for getting 2 pads to work with each other, I would personally have thought using some careful filtering would work better. HP on the one that's making the space and LP on the one that's making the warmth. A little bit of EQ to keep crossing frequencies under control, but I think the result can sound more natural than aggressive EQing, kinder to the ears, and easier to automate smoothly that loads of EQ cuts.

I downloaded a few Spectrum Analyzers a while ago and to be honest I don't really find them helpful. Its really about just hearing the mix and get things to fit based on your experience of well mixed tracks. Decided what frequencies to cut all depends on what else is sitting alongside. As illfly mandog said your ears are your best guide.

i think you need to boost the other pad 1.75 dB at 303 hZ with a q of 0,75

ok, just kidding. it is impossible to say anything about this specific situation without hearing the full arrangement, or at least the two pads.

EQ is your friend, cut, boost, close your eyes, listen, cut more, look at the analyzers, do anything to make it sound good to you.

i too am just learning this, i was always way more interested making the composition interesting and good rather than making the mix good, thinking some mastering solves everything. i know, i´m stupid

techdiff what do you mean "stacked 9ths" are you referring to one step higher than an octave?

also arent hp/lp filters just a convenient easy way to EQ?

Yeah of course, exactly that. the only reason I'd suggest it though is that a smoother cut across a wider specific frequency range will sound less un natural than a series of sharp cuts at small ranges. additionally, if as mentioned, you planned to open out the EQ in sections where the pads are solo, or reign them in when the rest of the track is running, this would be much easier to achieve using a basic shelf filter as opposed to a series of notches. My opinion anyway..

  On 8/12/2011 at 11:59 PM, hardcode said:

techdiff what do you mean "stacked 9ths" are you referring to one step higher than an octave?

A major ninth being an interval of 14 semitones, then that interval being repeated. ie, root note of C5 + 14 semitones = D6 + 14 semitones = E7

could be inverted to a one octave range giving you a Root, Major 2nd, Major 3rd, but the split across 3 octaves opens it out nicely and reduces the sense of dissonance.

adding perfect 5ths make it even lusher :) This also becomes a big fifths stack which sounds super epic!

Thank you so much people, i really appreciate all of your answers. thats why i love this forum so much, you guys are great.

  On 8/12/2011 at 7:12 PM, TechDiff said:

One thought, are your running either pad through reverb? I'm assuming the analysies are pre verb if you are. Might be worth checking after the verb as well, just to see what the frequency spectrum is like then

Yes, both pads go through reverb. i wanted kinda atmospheric pads. the spectrum analyzers are located as inserts on master out of the project. so the spectrum analysis of each pad shows each pad as it is placed within the mix alone.

as i understand, the conclusion is "do what your ears and your heart tell you to do, and close your eyes when you do that" :)

Here's a page (with links at the bottom discussing other audio techniques) that I've found incredibly useful for reading EQ curves to help with mastering http://www.tweakheadz.com/EQ_and_the_Limits_of_Audio.html

tweakheadz, fantastic source of info. have had it on my drive for a year now, seems i have got to read it eventually. thank you for the link pete

lol mcbpete ive seen that, funny article

  On 8/15/2011 at 3:25 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

are your ears broken?

i got criticized a lot by mentioning analyzers during the mixing process. i make posts being fully aware of my questions and what im asking, so im not offended at all by any hints of irony. instead, just because i dont have any complex around it and can tolerate all ironic comments, i always listen carefully to what others have to say. my politics is since somebody took some time to answer to my question, i already have respect for it. im trully "all ears" when im told something im really interested in and find it very inspiring and educational.

  On 8/15/2011 at 3:25 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

a good way of getting your pad sounds to gel better is to make a boost on Pad1 wherever + whenever you make a cut on Pad2 and vice versa. I think this is a general rule of thumb for mixing anyhow.

thank you for mentioning it. ive already been doing so for a few days now, it does not come easy but im trying. especially when there few sounds alone, and the same sounds when more sounds of the same range frequencies come in. for example, in my ambient-experimental works i like to use many different noises and textures. in combination with various drones and atmospheric soundscapes is where i find it hard to make sounds stand out, because there are so many of them, and many of them seem to conflict, covering one another.

  On 8/17/2011 at 12:44 AM, mollekula said:

  On 8/15/2011 at 3:25 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

are your ears broken?

i got criticized a lot by mentioning analyzers during the mixing process. i make posts being fully aware of my questions and what im asking, so im not offended at all by any hints of irony. instead, just because i dont have any complex around it and can tolerate all ironic comments, i always listen carefully to what others have to say. my politics is since somebody took some time to answer to my question, i already have respect for it. im trully "all ears" when im told something im really interested in and find it very inspiring and educational.

Honestly I think it's a bit of a case of horses for courses. Some don't use them at all and get good results, some can't do without. I know that Noisia sware by them and while I don't like the music they make, it's fkn well produced and very well mixed.

whatever works really.

that brings up an interesting point. what is the subjective value of music that you don't consider necessarily "good", but at the same time is produced/mixed/mastered very well?

i tend to see this a lot, especially with dubstep, the tracks always real loud and in your face, but i just can't stand listening to the actual music.