Ring modulation

Hiya!

 

Does anyone here have any suggestions on a patch I could wire up to make interesting sounds with a ring modulator? It probably doesn't help that both of my oscillators are currently receiving CV on the bus, so I can't easily have only one following the keyboard while the other stays put (although I can override the input of one or both with, say, an LFO, but I don't have anything to output a constant voltage). So far I've got some fairly nice sounds by sending two different outputs of a quadrature LFO to two oscillators, so the pitch of each oscillator is offset from the other, making suitably enharmonic sounds once all the crazy AM maths kicks in. I heard you can also do more useful things with AM such as vibraphone style sounds, does anyone here know how to do that? I'd appreciate any tips or advice!

 

Thanks! ^.^

Zoë.

and another one....

So... mostly it's used for the kind of sound on the In Dust We Trust intro, then? I should probably spend more time reading synthesis books and listening to Wendy Carlos...

wendy carlos is OG. I think the majority of people here are more the random knob turning types. :) Not that we/they are lazy, but more that it's just a by-ear process.

I never could pick a side on the whole "learn to do things properly" vs. "just do things by ear" debate... I want to do everything! :D The hard part's finding time to read all these articles and books I have lying around... And the old school types like Wendy Carlos and Delia Derbyshire were and are just amazing. I have complete respect for anyone who can play an entire orchestral piece by herself monophonically (I'm cheating with MIDI here, and digital multitracking, and even then it takes me a long time to play a track through several times to record each monophonic part separately). If I can just figure out how to mix and match the best of various different techniques and technologies, I might just be set. :D

 

I try to live by "do whatever sounds best" as much as I can... but so far, with my ring modulator, all I've managed to get out of it are detuned radio style intros and outros at best. So I need to either gather more knowledge, put in more effort, or sell my ring modulator and fill that space with something I'll get more practical use out of.

just keep cracking at it. You'll pop out with something interesting if you keep poking it. Maybe get away from it for a while. Go for a walk, cook a meal, or run errands. A lot of my best problem solving ideas come this way. :) Let your sub conscious work at it. Maybe there is some routing idea you haven't hit on yet. Maybe it should be more dynamic.

 

Do you know Brian Eno's card deck? It's a quite qwirky way to get unstuck on a particular issue. http://stoney.sb.org/eno/oblique.html

try using using the same envelope on the pitch of a VCO going into the ringmods X or Y it should give you a more precise control of the effect

 

its kinda what Tomita does above using the same envelope as the filter (I think)

Yes, I'm guessing ring modulation was used on that bell-like sound 0:32 into Snowflakes Are Dancing. Any idea how, though? And yeah, I should probably try some other things then come back to it from a fresh angle, thanks.

 

Edit: nevermind, I just saw your latest post. Ooh, yeah, feed the pitch offset of one of the oscillators an envelope generator... how did I miss that idea? Thanks, I'm going to try that tomorrow! :D

Edited September 15, 2011 by ZoeB

  On 9/14/2011 at 11:04 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

wendy carlos is OG. I think the majority of people here are more the random knob turning types. :) Not that we/they are lazy, but more that it's just a by-ear process.

i think at some point the two approaches meld and become the same thing. the random tuners will start to see the logic behind what their ears like. the deliberate constructors get so familiar with ways to build things, that the construction methods cease to be important. kind of like how you can zone out on a drive if it's a route you drive a lot.

 

both approaches boil down to getting stuff out of your head.

Zoe have you got a pic of your set up because it sounds like you have a lot of hardware. I'd be keen to see what you've got! :D

Edited September 15, 2011 by Promo

  On 9/15/2011 at 10:35 AM, Promo said:

Zoe have you got a pic of your set up because it sounds like you have a lot of hardware. I'd be keen to see what you've got! :D

 

See http://forum.watmm.com/topic/11459-studio-pics/page__st__1425__p__1617391#entry1617391 and http://forum.watmm.com/topic/11459-studio-pics/page__st__1475__p__1655687#entry1655687 :) Although they'll be out of date again soon, as I've sent off for some more modules...

I've got a Doepfer A-114 in my modular too but I barely ever use it. I think I bought it to recreate the sound used in t

but I prefer using the unmodulated sound. I guess I'm just not a fan of that kind of sound... though it can be pretty cool if you put two VCOs being fed harmonically-similar sequences though a ring mod.

Yeah, it's an A-114 I'm using. Thanks for the video link. Judging by the title, the A-196 is probably another key component to that patch... I think that kind of module is currently a bit beyond my level of knowledge for the moment. :) (Ditto on the BBDs I've been looking at lately...) It looks like boobtube356 has a few ringmod based patches, some more

than others... Lovely stuff, thanks!

Yep the A-196 is the key module of that patch, really interesting module though, perhaps worth trading in the A-114 for it later if you decide you're not getting on with ring modulation. I think with some of this stuff though you've just gotta take the plunge regardless of knowledge or what-not - if you find a demo you like, it's worth checking the module out :)

True, but I already broke my promise to my partner that I wouldn't get any more modules when I first bought my Doepfer A-100, and I have yet another module coming tomorrow... I need to somewhat calm down a bit with checking out new modules, they're too tempting! :D For now at least, I think it's time for me to learn to better use what I already have.

  On 9/14/2011 at 11:32 PM, soundwave said:

try using using the same envelope on the pitch of a VCO going into the ringmods X or Y

 

OK, so I tried out the envelope-out-to-oscillator-detune-in idea... wow! :D Thanks, Soundwave! It goes from nice to nasty to kick drum to sweeping sound... So I showed it to my partner and she wired up a kinda 80s videogame racing engine sound... and a short while later she ended up with something that sounded more like oscillator sync and Underworld's Rez. Neither of us are entirely sure how her last patch works, exactly... Seeing as the C64's SID chip could perform ring modulation, I think I'm starting to work out where some of the neat instruments and sound effects in the games from my childhood came from! :D Yeah, I'm definitely keeping this module, thanks for helping me get started with it!

Zoe-

 

I'm overjoyed to see you have received your modular and are digging in. I've been extremely vanilla with mine to date and I hope you continue to share your experiments here as I'm learning a lot.

Thanks for the encouragement Acidphakist, I think you helped tempt me into the modular world to begin with. :) I'm starting to concede that there might be something to this tangible hardware approach.

In case anyone's interested, I made a quick video to show the ring modulation in action:

 

 

Thanks again for all the help, everyone!

 

All the best,

Zoë.

  On 9/15/2011 at 8:40 PM, ZoeB said:

I already broke my promise to my partner that I wouldn't get any more modules

 

that was a lol "baby..come back! I promise!! no more modules!!"

 

thanks for the ring mod demo. I'm addicted to the feature set of soft synths but modulars will always be sexier to me. hmmmmmm

  On 9/24/2011 at 10:32 PM, A/D said:

that was a lol "baby..come back! I promise!! no more modules!!"

 

thanks for the ring mod demo. I'm addicted to the feature set of soft synths but modulars will always be sexier to me. hmmmmmm

 

Well, you can always mix and match. I have to keep reminding myself that it's ideal to draw from a heterogeneous collection of sound making devices.

 

I'm addicted to my modular now, but my partner will always be sexier to me. :D