Scotland

Who is voting for independence?

Would you let your friend drive while intoxicated??

i say give it to them and hurry up about it. one less problem for England/the UK to deal with.

so many of them hate the English, anyway, still. so leave 'em to it.

On balance, at the moment, i think i would vote no.

Whats the point in Leaving the UK Union, to still be part of a bigger European Union where we have even less say.

Questions remain on most issues..why create differences in currency (we'd lose the AAA credit rating the UK currently has, meaning every scot would have to pay higher interest on mortgages / loans as Scotland has less assets to cover debt as the UK), employement law, taxes blah blah blah with the rest of the UK. How many Scottish People on here are employed by a UK or Global Company. This just adds further red tape whereby some companies would reconsider a presence here, even if the scottish government sets tax breaks for businesses.

its one of those hypothetical questions that we will never know if it would work without doing it, and would like to hear more of the arguement for (other than keeping Oil Revenue which is a boring, tired, un-future proof arguement) . But Frankly this is the wrong time to be seeking independence from a Union that has benefitted us mostly.

no

  On 1/9/2012 at 1:57 PM, sirch said:

so many of them hate the English, anyway, still. so leave 'em to it.

I suspect that a sizeable majority of Scots don't. The SNP will avoid any kind of anti-English sentiment as it would almost certainly mean a no vote. When it came to the devolution referundum in the NE a few years ago the yes campaign fucked it up properly by getting a load of z list celebrities to harp on about being governed by soft southern puffs, therby completely alienating and patronising the NE electorate who actually aren't thick parochialists who hate cockneys (it was a London based pr firm who came up with the campaign).

I haven't decided where I stand yet. My initial position is that Scotland, Scotishness, even taking into consideration the concrete differences like Scots law, is a fairly flimsy construct, that the people of the UK are one sovereign people, the Union has been mutually beneficial and that Ben Nevis belongs as much to Mr Sebastian Limpwrist in Hertfordshire as it does to Wee Jock McCholesterol in Glasgow. I'm not particularly impressed by someone trying to steal part of my country.

  On 1/9/2012 at 2:29 PM, Lady kakapo said:

  On 1/9/2012 at 1:57 PM, sirch said:

so many of them hate the English, anyway, still. so leave 'em to it.

 

I haven't decided where I stand yet. My initial position is that Scotland, Scotishness, even taking into consideration the concrete differences like Scots law, is a fairly flimsy construct, that the people of the UK are one sovereign people, the Union has been mutually beneficial and that Ben Nevis belongs as much to Mr Sebastian Limpwrist in Hertfordshire as it does to Wee Jock McCholesterol in Glasgow. I'm not particularly impressed by someone trying to steal part of my country.

i know what you're saying. but you could still visit there, like you can Ireland, or America, or Australia... etc.

  On 1/9/2012 at 2:29 PM, Lady kakapo said:

  On 1/9/2012 at 1:57 PM, sirch said:

so many of them hate the English, anyway, still. so leave 'em to it.

 

I suspect that a sizeable majority of Scots don't.

Correct, there is a vocal minority that claim to hate the English (press) during major international football tournaments, but partly thats petty jealousy (if we actually won something we' d never shut up about it either) and understandable as most fans of English football teams I know hate the English national team and all the hyped press they get as much as us.

Sure theres the odd incident of racism / nationalism against English people in Scotland but thats just perpetrated by a minorty of parochial cheuchters that think the are direclty descendant of some old king or other....

  On 1/9/2012 at 2:47 PM, Malkmus said:

  On 1/9/2012 at 2:29 PM, Lady kakapo said:

  On 1/9/2012 at 1:57 PM, sirch said:

so many of them hate the English, anyway, still. so leave 'em to it.

 

I suspect that a sizeable majority of Scots don't.

 

Correct, there is a vocal minority that claim to hate the English (press) during major international football tournaments, but partly thats petty jealousy (if we actually won something we' d never shut up about it either) and understandable as most fans of English football teams I know hate the English national team and all the hyped press they get as much as us.

 

Sure theres the odd incident of racism / nationalism against English people in Scotland but thats just perpetrated by a minorty of parochial cheuchters that think the are direclty descendant of some old king or other....

word!

  On 1/9/2012 at 1:45 PM, YO303 said:

Would you let your friend drive while intoxicated??

i don't think scotland should leave the union and i don't think the majority of scots want to either.

I would understand if they did want independence, they're not represented enough in this government (but then no of us have really been represented! Fuck the conservatives)

Hate against the English really has died down, partly because (partially) lots of English students are coming to Scottish Universities because of fee reduction, shock horror! (study in England as an English student and your fees are upwards to 9k. Right now its 2k or lower in Scotland if you pay and this weirdly enough only applies to English students, other internationals in the EU get theirs payed - a scheme designed to bring in a more skilled workforce which seems to be working to some degree).

The large majority of English people I know up here in Glasgow/ones I've met all say they were pleasantly surprised by how friendly people have been to them - you'd need to go to a really bad part of town waving the English flag and trying to troll - even then you've still got time to leg it (parts of town you just plain avoid, you know the parts...)

. I reccall either the BBC or a newspaper many years ago leaving a car with English flags emblazoned all over it in a well over the top manner and left a camera around to view the damage (small minority of retards DO kick about, unsurprisingly just like everywhere else in the UK).

I've never ever encountered bitterness towards English people - as in genuine burning "fuck you because you're English", this is a lovely image that the media would love to chunder around because it separates us and divides us more.

There are positive aspects to what Salmond (like fuck I trust him) wants, i.e. continue with no tuition fees in University, stop Trident from being in Scotland and quite a few other fairly decent ideas - again shock horror! a politician actually seemingly acting with his peoples interests! (I don't trust him and think he's a snake but in any TV appearance he's completely destroyed arguments/opposition in a logical and clear manner).

:)

I haven't seen any good rebuttals against independence, the clincher?, the bigger the city the more crime, this is evident because in bigger cities you're more anonymous and there is less incentive to see people as other people but rather "targets" or whatever if you're going to do something bad (smaller communities, everyone knows everyone... less incentive to commit the crime). So does it rest that with the bigger the system, the more widespread the corruption and ineffective management is????

so far the answer seems to be quite mixed (leaning towards a yes though. But things are not quite so black and white...)

I haven't decided on how I'll vote on it, I need to read more information and study more up about it truthfully. Businessmen on both sides of the wall with have agendas!

devo max

  On 1/9/2012 at 5:10 PM, Gary C said:

  On 1/9/2012 at 1:45 PM, YO303 said:

Would you let your friend drive while intoxicated??

i would. it's the sensible thing to do. i shouldn't drive while intoxicated, so i better leave it to my friend.

glasgow rocks my socks

i will vote yes

Right now, independence isn't a good thing.

But I dont know, maybe the Scots want it.

What are the implications for UK defense and future Scottish national defense (beyond the police force)? They'll be allies obviously...and Scotland a NATO member be default too? I ask this mostly because the UK nuclear arsenal is submarine based, and those subs operate out of Scotland.

devon got its own flag in like 2003. basically it could stop exporting and become completely self-sufficient but it would be important to be allied with cornwall and then invade the world. europes westest ffs

  On 1/13/2012 at 8:28 PM, joshuatxuk said:

What are the implications for UK defense and future Scottish national defense (beyond the police force)? They'll be allies obviously...and Scotland a NATO member be default too? I ask this mostly because the UK nuclear arsenal is submarine based, and those subs operate out of Scotland.

i don't think scotland as an independent nation would get NATO membership. there would just be an agreement (probably involving a few billion pounds) between england and scotland to continue to allow subs to be operated from scottish waters.

Not long now, the papers and media in general are really starting to hype it up.

My thoughts are that I would much prefer to see the UK stay as the UK - albeit decentralising some decisions from Westminster up to Holyrood if thats what is required.

All the "yes" campaign stuff I have read basically is just them picking and choosing which bits of an independence state suits them.

A truly independent state (in my honest opinion) should cut ALL ties in terms of monetary system, welfare and health, military / defence etc etc. If this does not happen, then it is not independence?

Im very excited, and a yes vote seems genuinely within our grasp.

its worth bearing in mind that the only reason this is actually happening is because the Better Together campaign has been loaded with blatant lies, scaremongering, and vast amounts of condescension and misogyny. It is happening because the conservative goverment are some of the most fucking horrible people going right now, and they have brought it on themselves by consistently lying, creating an enormous divide between the richest in the country in the poorest, literally murdering disabled and sick people by taking away their benefits (and on that point i do not use hyperbole, i cant remember the figure but its in the low hundreds).

Its interesting that London is the richest place in Western Europe, and yet 9 of the 10 poorest places in Western Europe are also in Britain.

Anyway, this is happening, and Scotlands seperation from the England is very likely going to be quite shitty for England, economically, no-one back down there seems to quite realise it, my own, middle class and bright parent still seemed to think this was some kind of interesting joke that scottish people are getting all braveheart about, but yeah.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-who-loses-if-scotland-goes-it-alone/6524

exciting times.

Never in my life have i voted, and actually felt like it would change a thing.

You can see it in action right now, if Labour, Conservative, and the Lib Dems are completely happy to team up and jump into bed together to get something they want, in public, in the case of scottish seperation, why on earth does anyone think its not three arms of the same body behind the doors of the general election.