Cartridges and whatnot....

All,

Sorry for the noob questions here but... going to buy a turntable so I can play all the vinyl I've collected over the years.

I'm wondering what I am looking for in terms of quality? Like, what factors make one turntable itself better than another? Isn't it all in the cartridge, really?

The table just makes shit spin, no?

Would I be better off buying a 700$ table and 50$ cartridge, or a $200 table and invest in a $500 cartridge?

Direct drive? Belt driven? etc...?

I figured the cartridge does the reading, that's where the sound quality will come in....?

Fuck I feel stupid...

to put it very basically, a better quality turntable will impart less rumble.

if you want quality, you can't skimp on one area and make up for in in another.

Thanks boss... So what makes a turntable "quality"?

Like, what is "rumble" and how does a quality table prevent it?

  On 6/17/2012 at 9:44 PM, StephenG said:

Thanks boss... So what makes a turntable "quality"?

 

Like, what is "rumble" and how does a quality table prevent it?

I'm certainly not qualified to be yacking on about audiophile turntables, but it seems that the general consensus is that belt driven ones are better, and the thicker the turntable platter the better. Also what the platter is made of seems to be a factor too.

Audiophile turntables are something that I personally don't see the point in unless you have the patience and the money to be looking after them. I'm very happy with my Technics 1210 MkII with an Ortofon Arkiv cartridge (which has an elliptical stylus, rather than the spherical stylus type that you find with most DJ carts), and I've never had a bad comment about any of my vinyl rips yet.

I'm sure someone with more experience than I will chime in with their recommendations and tips though.

  On 6/17/2012 at 9:51 PM, oscillik said:

  On 6/17/2012 at 9:44 PM, StephenG said:

Thanks boss... So what makes a turntable "quality"?

 

Like, what is "rumble" and how does a quality table prevent it?

 

I'm certainly not qualified to be yacking on about audiophile turntables, but it seems that the general consensus is that belt driven ones are better, and the thicker the turntable platter the better. Also what the platter is made of seems to be a factor too.

 

Audiophile turntables are something that I personally don't see the point in unless you have the patience and the money to be looking after them. I'm very happy with my Technics 1210 MkII with an Ortofon Arkiv cartridge (which has an elliptical stylus, rather than the spherical stylus type that you find with most DJ carts), and I've never had a bad comment about any of my vinyl rips yet.

 

I'm sure someone with more experience than I will chime in with their recommendations and tips though.

No worries, thanks for what you've said here, it gives me a good start (I'm going to look up spherical vs elliptical stylus').

The 1210mk2 has got a good reputation for sure.

  On 6/17/2012 at 9:53 PM, StephenG said:

  On 6/17/2012 at 9:51 PM, oscillik said:

  On 6/17/2012 at 9:44 PM, StephenG said:

Thanks boss... So what makes a turntable "quality"?

 

Like, what is "rumble" and how does a quality table prevent it?

 

I'm certainly not qualified to be yacking on about audiophile turntables, but it seems that the general consensus is that belt driven ones are better, and the thicker the turntable platter the better. Also what the platter is made of seems to be a factor too.

 

Audiophile turntables are something that I personally don't see the point in unless you have the patience and the money to be looking after them. I'm very happy with my Technics 1210 MkII with an Ortofon Arkiv cartridge (which has an elliptical stylus, rather than the spherical stylus type that you find with most DJ carts), and I've never had a bad comment about any of my vinyl rips yet.

 

I'm sure someone with more experience than I will chime in with their recommendations and tips though.

 

No worries, thanks for what you've said here, it gives me a good start (I'm going to look up spherical vs elliptical stylus').

 

The 1210mk2 has got a good reputation for sure.

Spherical Stylus - grips into grooves better, so DJs can scratch and stuff and the stylus will stay in the groove better. Downside is that spherical styli can damage the grooves more than elliptical styli, and the frequency response isn't quite as good.

Elliptical Stylus - doesn't grip into the grooves, so not as good for a DJ, but has better frequency response than spherical styli.

at least, that's how I understand it.

my nice cartridge busted and im po'

whats a good >$50 cart

500 dollar cartridge? the fuck?

  On 6/18/2012 at 7:51 PM, yek said:

500 dollar cartridge? the fuck?

??

There are cartridges that cost in the thousands of dollars.....?

really?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/turntables

if i were you i'd try a tt between 100 and 200 dollars. and then maybe a shure cartridge, i like my m44g

  On 6/18/2012 at 10:41 PM, yek said:

really?

 

 

 

http://www.musicians....com/turntables

 

if i were you i'd try a tt between 100 and 200 dollars. and then maybe a shure cartridge, i like my m44g

That's kind of what I was thinking, I would buy a medium priced table around 500$-750$ and then grab a 100-200 cartridge.

Does anyone have any recommendations around that price point? Also I would want to rip my vinyl to the computer... =/

Thanks Yek ,going to check out some "shure" stuff now, I heard its a good brand. Check out Clear-Audio's cartridges, they're all like $6,000 all the way up to $15,000!

I've heard good things about this "pro-ject debut 3" table..

The Technics SL-1200/10 has kind of been redeemed in the eyes of turntable geeks and audiophiles these days, and a lot of people say there isn't a better option <$£1000. It's common for users to replace the arm with something more "hi-fi" though if you put the right cartridge on the stock arm, it can be a killer deck, with the bonus of being able to swap out the cartridge in seconds. I used one for a long time before going over to linear tracking - I now use an SL-10.

The 1200 with stock arm (which is quite high mass) is at its best when using a low-compliance cartridge, i.e most moving-coil carts. If you have a preamp that can work at MC output level, I'd recomment a Denon DL-103.

  On 6/19/2012 at 10:27 AM, xy_politics said:

The Technics SL-1200/10 has kind of been redeemed in the eyes of turntable geeks and audiophiles these days, and a lot of people say there isn't a better option <$£1000. It's common for users to replace the arm with something more "hi-fi" though if you put the right cartridge on the stock arm, it can be a killer deck, with the bonus of being able to swap out the cartridge in seconds. I used one for a long time before going over to linear tracking - I now use an SL-10.

 

The 1200 with stock arm (which is quite high mass) is at its best when using a low-compliance cartridge, i.e most moving-coil carts. If you have a preamp that can work at MC output level, I'd recomment a Denon DL-103.

Thanks for all the tips...

So there is a lot more to this then I thought.....

I really have to do some research!

  On 6/19/2012 at 1:24 AM, StephenG said:

I've heard good things about this "pro-ject debut 3" table..

I got myself a project debut 3 SE earlier this month. Its a beautiful looking table and sounds great. I don't know much about turntables either and this seemed like a good one to begin with (I've only owned a £50 USB turntable before this). The SE version has a better build and comes with a better cartridge (OM 10 opposed to the OM 5) out of the box so it might be a ideal for something good and within a decent budget before you get a better cartridge down the line. The 3 SE isn't a USB table, but I believe they have a similar USB version if that's a must.

Are you planning to use the turntable for any kind of mixing / dj antics or just to play the vinyl. If it's the latter it may be worth investigating stuff more along the line of the Pro-Ject ( http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?info=turntables&cat=turntables&lang=en ) or Rega ( http://www.rega.co.uk/ ) range.

I've got a Project Debut 3 (£150 / €235) though probably should've stretched to a Debut III Esprit (£300 / €475). With it I've bought a Project Speed Box (£90 / $141) and Cambridge Audio 640P preamp (£60 / $94) and recently upgraded the stylus to the Ortofon OM20 (£90 / $141). So in total, for a system I'm really happy with I've spent a little under £400 ($630)

  On 6/19/2012 at 3:36 PM, AcrossCanyons said:

  On 6/19/2012 at 1:24 AM, StephenG said:

I've heard good things about this "pro-ject debut 3" table..

I got myself a project debut 3 SE earlier this month. Its a beautiful looking table and sounds great. I don't know much about turntables either and this seemed like a good one to begin with (I've only owned a £50 USB turntable before this). The SE version has a better build and comes with a better cartridge (OM 10 opposed to the OM 5) out of the box so it might be a ideal for something good and within a decent budget before you get a better cartridge down the line. The 3 SE isn't a USB table, but I believe they have a similar USB version if that's a must.

Thanks for the info, I'm going to check it out!

  On 6/19/2012 at 3:46 PM, mcbpete said:

Are you planning to use the turntable for any kind of mixing / dj antics or just to play the vinyl. If it's the latter it may be worth investigating stuff more along the line of the Pro-Ject ( http://www.project-a...ntables&lang=en ) or Rega ( http://www.rega.co.uk/ ) range.

 

I've got a Project Debut 3 (£150 / €235) though probably should've stretched to a Debut III Esprit (£300 / €475). With it I've bought a Project Speed Box (£90 / $141) and Cambridge Audio 640P preamp (£60 / $94) and recently upgraded the stylus to the Ortofon OM20 (£90 / $141). So in total, for a system I'm really happy with I've spent a little under £400 ($630)

Only for the latter, playing vinyl. There are way too many hidden gems in the electronic music world that don't make it onto CDS, I've been buying vinyl here and there lately, want to start listening!

Yeah the pro-ject ones sounds great so far from what I have read, my only thing is I want to be able to rip them so I can put the tracks on my ipod for car listening.

Do I need to get a pre-amp, or can I just run it through the phono on my reciever through to my power-amp like any other peripheral....? What does the speed box do for you?

Tons of great information in this mini thread so far, thanks everyone for the help.

Yeah you definitely need a pre-amp with an RIAA curve, see why here - http://www.phonopreamps.com/faq.html#RIAA ) or it'll sound terrible. The speedbox is to maintain a steady 33.3 or 45 rpm rotation of turntable and also allows you to switch between the two speeds without having to faff about with changing the belt position (it sounds crazy but you soon take it as the norm that these kinds of turntables generally don't have a speed switch on the actual body of the device and are altered by a separate box)

  On 6/19/2012 at 6:35 PM, mcbpete said:

Yeah you definitely need a pre-amp with an RIAA curve, see why here - http://www.phonoprea...m/faq.html#RIAA ) or it'll sound terrible. The speedbox is to maintain a steady 33.3 or 45 rpm rotation of turntable and also allows you to switch between the two speeds without having to faff about with changing the belt position (it sounds crazy but you soon take it as the norm that these kinds of turntables generally don't have a speed switch on the actual body of the device and are altered by a separate box)

so tt;s go into preamp and then into amp.?

it really sounds a lot better/ ? what's a good model/>?

Yeah it goes Turntable -> Preamp -> Amp/mixer/audio interface/whatever

Here's some examples pre-and post the riaa curve (there may be better examples somewhere) - http://irene.lbl.gov/examples.html

Basically without the preamp the whole thing sounds flat or really tinny as if it hasn't been EQd properly

interesting. good brands /model? will any preamp do...

If you have a PHONO input on your amp you don't need a pre-amp.

  On 6/19/2012 at 8:52 PM, yek said:

good brands /model? will any preamp do...

That I can't tell you, I'm not sure if just having the curve is all you need or if there's extra benefits from more expensive models. I've got a Cambridge Audio one, but before on my old table I had an ART DeeJayPRE ( http://artproaudio.com/discontinued_products/discontinued_products/product/deejaypre/ - actually talks about the reasons for the RIAA curve) for about £25 and there didn't really seem to be much notable differences (except possibly build quality)

  On 6/19/2012 at 8:59 PM, mcbpete said:

That I can't tell you, I'm not sure if just having the curve is all you need or if there's extra benefits from more expensive models. I've got a Cambridge Audio one, but before on my old table I had an ART DeeJayPRE ( http://artproaudio.c...duct/deejaypre/ - actually talks about the reasons for RIAA curve) for about £25 and there didn't really seem to be much notable differences (except possibly build quality)

i was looking at the model you had:

http://www.amazon.com/ART-II-Preamplifier-Outputs-Switchable/dp/B000AJR482/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340132207&sr=8-1&keywords=ART+Pro+Audio+-+DJPre-2+Interface

would you recomend

Aye, if it's anything like the previous model it'll do fine (not sure what the dial on the front is for though !)