headphone monitors q

Yo yo hey guys :)

A while ago I tried to become one of those people who actually pays proper attention to mixdowns and production and got these monitor headphones. From memory they are senheiser hd215s. I think that's right but I'm on the train so can' check now.

So I thought this would give me a clearer picture of the sound of my tracks but without the BASS BOOST that I guess most every day non monitor headphones come with my tracks sound weak and I end up compensating by adding too much bass and fucking the mix pretty badly.

So I guess my question is; what is the fucking deal with monitor headphones? Do you guys bother with them and cross reference with normal headphones? Do you just refuse to produce in headphones at all (unfortunately this isn't much of an option for me; I live in a quiet block of apartments)? Or do you just use normal headphones because its closer to what listeners will be using?

Any input and advice appreciated. Cheers guys :)

Also man my stereo sucks. Its one of those ones with ROCK and POP presets and it has this ridiculous GROOVE setting which amplifier the highs and bass. Without it on it sounds muddy as fuck and with it on well, it boosts shit a little too much and sounds overdone.

Yeah so that's another reason why I ain't using the stereo. Sorry lots of words too much caffeine

I only use my monitors. My headphones are always plugged in to in my mixer though, so once I'm satisfied with the sound coming through my speakers, I put on my headphones, then I bounce it, play it on my laptop, my iPhone, and then my terrible home theater. If it sounds good on all then I'm satisfied :)

well, certainly sounds like you need to invest a little in a proper monitoring setup, ie a new good qualty amp/soundcard to plug your senheisers into. then i i guess it's just a matter of learning your particular setup and how to get the best out of it. do multiple masters of a few tracks with different dynamics and listen back to them on as wide-ranging an array of playback equipment as you can be bothered with - hi-fi system, through your computer monitor, somebody else's stereo, in the car etc etc and try to establish the best-sounding mix which has all the elements you're looking for. in terms of over-doing the bass - just use a spectrometer plugin on your track before mastering to establish which frequencies might be too loud, adjust accordingly, master, listen back again etc etc...

Always reference your mixes with something you hold in high regard. Pick a track with the overall sound you are aiming for, line it up side by side in your DAW, and then just go to town mixing your track to sound as close to the reference as possible. If you do this, you could be plugging into a goat's anus and monitoring through it's mouth, it wouldn't matter. knowing how something is supposed to sound on whatever system you are using is more important than having said system sound perfect.

That being said, a proper setup will help you pick up on subtle nuances in music that will enhance your mixing abilities. The most obvious for me was when I introduced my Sennheiser HD650's and a good headphone amp into my mixing setup. I was amazed at how much spacial clarity I got, specifically very low-level reverbs that got lost on my Mackies. To this day I use BOTH headphones and monitors for mixing, depending on whatever I'm currently working on (dynamics/eq'ing/stereo imaging/etc).

Cheers guys, great advice; I'll definitely try a lot of this! Much appreciated :)

On the eq tip though, does anyone have any good preferably free spectrometer vst recommendations? I use a lot of fl stuff and it can get difficult to tell from the brightness of the bands exactly where shit is peaking and by how much. A good graph should help me out a lot in this regard (I have a real problem having too much bass and high end which drowns out the middle so the whole track looks scooped; I think I need to rather heavily apply some subtractive eq on most elements of my tracks :S)

Voxengo Span is free and great. http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

I’m in a similar boat and I’ve found that “monitor”-style headphones are mostly useless to me. I have some nice AKGs and Grados but I do all my music on a pair of those silver Sony DJ headphones.

I’m very used to these headphones by now. Also, like you’re saying, sometimes it’s worth using some non-“flat” cans because they are more exciting to listen to and it’s easier to be creative while wearing them.

What I’ve decided after a lot of trial and error is that I’m always compromising by working on headphones, no matter how good they are. But, you’re also compromising (for me, even more heavily) by using anything but a REALLY NICE set of monitor speakers too. I’d much rather work like I do (on a few sets of decent headphones that I rotate) than on a set of only decent monitor speakers. Ditto for pretty good speakers in a room that sounds weird. That’s worse than headphones, in my opinion.

So, it’s basically trial and error. I have certain tricks/fx I rely on because I know they translate well. Personally I try to be real conservative with big EQ changes or anything too “mix-y” because I find that most of the time I end up making it worse the more I try. There are some things I like though. For treble I will tend to multiband compress and crank up the treble that way (basically using the multiband compressor like a gentle “tone” knob) as opposed to any kind of positive EQ. For bass I cut the subsonics on everything where it’s not specifically added by me (to get the rumble out of the drums, for example), and then just mix in a few different patches where they need to be.

Especially with bass, I find that headroom really is your friend. FL kinda sucks for this, but I like to run the whole track REALLY quiet (like peaking at less than -12 db) and only at the very end crank it way up. With that kinda headroom, if I want more bass I just turn up the bass track louder; I don’t worry about EQing it at all.

ya +1 for Ascdi's comment on your room. mixing on headphones is far superior to even the nicest monitors in a poorly treated room.

as has already been stated, learning your monitor set up is essential. i still screw up mixes even being quite comfortable with my current 'studio,' but i'm not a pro, so i'm not doing work on a daily or even weekly basis. when i'm on a tear working every day for weeks or a month or more, i get very comfortable.

but this is all predicated on then listening to versions through other speakers. in my opinion, the more speakers the better. i have at least 5 sets i listen through; my studio monitors, my studio headphones, my living room stereo set up (17 year old Sony amp and speakers...i listen through these in room and from other rooms in my house, as i often do with other music.), my portable headphones, and my mediocre car stereo. when listening elsewhere i try to compensate for the fact that i'm listening on an iPod as well; in the past, when i'm nearing a final version of a release i'll burn the WAVs to a cd so i can make sure nothing is getting screwed up. this is way more than you asked for though....lol.

anyway monitor headphones are great (for me at least). just learn how yours are in relation to everything else, basically.

honestly i would love a second set of 'consumer' grade speakers to set up in my studio, so i could A/B them along with the monitors. that'd complete what i want out of a studio for the foreseeable future

You guys are awesome, thanks very much :)

Yeah so I think I'm going to try and get a set of normal headphones and switch and compare between that and the monitors for clarity and work on a lot of subtractive eq to iron out a lot of this shit.

Props to running the track quiet too, I really have to start doing that Haha.

Oh and cheers for that link AD

Once again thanks loads and always awesome to see some familiar names. Hey guys!

Hey od++!

no worries! good to see you too!