Windows 8 Touch Screen Tablets/Laptops - music possibilities

After playing with a bunch of fun Ipad apps of virtual synths using multi-touch (ie moving multiple faders at once) I'm wondering if the new Windows 8 touch screen stuff coming out would work just as well.
The touch screen interface in and of itself seems pretty comparable and the idea of working in apps like fruity loops, Reaktor and ableton with an actual functional touch screen seems pretty awesome, however what I'm wondering is have these software companies integrated this 'mutli-touch' support into their own software. Imagine being able to play a Reaktor instrument like you would a virtual synth on an Ipad or being able to mix in Ableton by putting 5 fingers onto 5 faders in the mixer. After searching around there seems to be very little information about using Windows 8 in this way.
Anyone here try music apps on Windows 8 touch screen stuff yet? And for those who have, do any of them support multi touch?

update: have now tried one for myself with music apps, see below

Edited December 3, 2012 by Awepittance

There's a commercial going around about a deaf DJ (wtf) who uses Windows 8...

 

as a def DJ would of course.

so after weeks of searching on google for things like - windows 8 multi-touch + reaktor or ableton or vsts i found almost nothing useful. People are asking the same question i am but nobody has an answer. Will VST plugins in Windows 8 multi touch interfaces let you use more than one finger at once to move more than one knob? Some people are asking in the ableton forums, there is a little talk on the KVR forums, but no one has a fucking answer! I guess it's too early still, but the possibilities at least to me blow the ipad to smithereens.

here is the closest thing i've found resembling an answer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5oOMMmpTa0

seems pretty basic, and the literature for Fruity 10.6 so far says simply

 

 

 

  Quote

Multi-touch support – FL Studio (and some plugins) now respond to Multitouch. If you want to get involved in multi-touch testing and development click here.

note: 'some' plugins, in the demo they show only the person using multi-touch to do an ipad/iphone style zoom.

So i guess we'll have to wait for Ableton 10 or Reaktor 6 to start seeing full integration of multitouch. Sort of a bummer that whoever runs the marketing at microsoft didn't think to get a bunch of these music apps developers to integrate multitouch on music programs. They could have gotten a lot of music producers interested in the OS instead of not giving a shit about it.


edit update: Cubase 6 at least in it's current iteration does not utilize multitouch on windows 8
I saw a random comment from someone on synthtopia who simply said 'i can move more than 1 knob with multi fingers on vsts'. No one followed up and asked for details. Microsoft needs to get their shit together, it's incredible to me that such a potentially useful feature would have this soft of a launch.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Awepittance

still sort of shocking to me there is so little about windows tablets, I'm going to possibly 'rent' one from best buy to try out all the apps myself and will report back to the forum when/if i do

so i'm thinking i might 'rent' this one



best buy does full cash refunds on laptops within 30 days of purchase with no restocking fee. Worthy of experimentation, might not be able to resist the opportunity. $499

 

still waiting for responses from Ableton and Native Instruments on multi touch compatibility, but i'm ridiculously impatient and need to find this out like asap. the curiosity is killing me

 

  Quote

 

2nd Gen Intel® Core™ i3-2365M

Features a 3MB L3 cache and 1.4GHz processor speed.

Intel® Core™ i3 processor

Features smart 4-way processing performance for HD quality computing.

4GB DDR3 memory

For multitasking power.

Note: Optical drive not included

Compatible with optional external recordable CD/DVD drives (not included).

11.6" high-definition capacitive multitouch display

Showcases movies and games in stunning clarity.

500GB hard drive

Offers plenty of storage capacity.

UMA graphics

For lush images and vivid detail. HDMI output for flexible connectivity options.

Built-in 1.0MP webcam and microphone

Make it easy to video chat with family and friends.

Multiformat digital media reader

Supports MultiMediaCard, Secure Digital, Secure Digital High Capacity and SDXC formats.

1 USB 3.0 port and 2 USB 2.0 ports

For fast digital data transfer and easy peripheral connectivity.

Built-in high-speed wireless LAN (802.11n)

Connect to the Internet without wires.

Built-in 10/100/1000 Mbps Fast Ethernet LAN

For quick and easy wired Web connection.

Weighs only 2.9 lbs. and measures just 0.9" thin

For lightweight portability. Chiclet-style keyboard allows comfortable typing.

Windows 8 64-bit operating system preinstalled

Provides a stable platform for word processing, Web navigation, gaming, media storage and more.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Awepittance

update: just took a plunge on a 30 day rental so to speak and i'll write a full report on every music software i test out on it in a few days.

hell yeah, can't wait to read your reviews!

so after some initial testing here are the results

Reaktor 5.8 32-bit : zero multi-touch support, but knobs and faders respond very smoothly to normal single touch mode, equally as good as any Ipad synth app (minus multitouch)

Ableton 8.3 32-bit: zero multi-touch support, knobs move o.k. not as smooth as reaktor and faders glitch out and jump, as if the sensitivity is way too high. In other words trying to move a fader it will not follow your finger, moving it ever so slightly will cause extreme movements in the fader.

Fruity Loops 10.0.9 c 32-bit: some multi-touch support, you can't move 2 knobs or faders at once on anything i've tried (So far) but very impressed by the touch implementation in general, piano roll use placing in notes, moving them and extending the lengths is extremely effortless and very very nice. The only mutli-touch feature in it is the same one in the demo video i posted above, you can 'pinch' zoom with two fingers in/out. Going to explore Fruity significantly more in the next few days. Since Fruity is generally very low on processor load, i could see a simple tablet (not even a laptop like the Asus) windows 8 computer being a pretty good investment for any hardcore Fruity user. The program more or less works as well with windows 8 touch as any sequencing Ipad app, but of course much cooler since it's a full blown Fruity loops and not the crippled one released for Ios
edit: the demo video i posted above actually seems a lot more choppy than the results i'm getting, much smoother over here.


not surprised Imageline is the only company who's focused on this, since it's still technically a windows only app. Just really unfortunate that Native Instruments and Ableton haven't bothered to go full force on the potential of this, it would completely eliminate the need for a TouchOSC or Lemur middle-man style app if it was fully implemented.

anybody have ideas for what other programs i should try? Perhaps some standalone virtual synths? I actually have 60 days to return this thing, which i will definitely be doing unless some mind blowing discovery occurs during my testing.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Awepittance

somebody made a front-end skin for Ableton that apparently lets you do multi-touch control, made to look like a reactable

http://www.tangiblex.net/tangilblex-liveset/




Edit: In general I'm very impressed by the quality and smoothness of the Asus touch screen, better than the Android HTC phone i have, and about equal to an Ipad. I've used touch screen interfaces with Windows before back on XP and they always sucked and felt very unusable. This is completely different. Cruising around the normal desktop mode (instead of the tiles front end of win 8) feels very smooth and natural.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Awepittance

  On 12/3/2012 at 1:41 AM, Awepittance said:

 

so i'm thinking i might 'rent' this one

 

 

holy fuck! they sure are shamelessly ripping off the macbook air design there. how is that even legal?

yeah i thought the same thing, although in person it looks slightly less like a ripoff. Not so much of an air but of a normal macbook pro (it looks a lot deceptively thinner in the picture)

just tried out the public beta for Fruity 10.8 and i guess i haven't used fruity in so long i didn't know it had sort of an Ableton clip mode feature now. They added more multitouch support in the beta, but still not enough. The clip mode feature seems to have the best integration for multi touch, use all 10 fingers to trigger different clips at the same time if you want.

single touch integration works very smoothly for
- stretching note lengths either individually or as a group (using touch to select by drawing a box)
- chopping notes into smaller pieces
- adding in notes
- previewing sounds
- turning knobs/faders/switches
- select tool

multi-touch works smoothly on
-fruity clip mode, hitting multiple clips on and off at once
-zooming in and out horizontally and vertically using 2 finger pinch
-2 fingered scrolling in all directions across the piano roll


Still does not have multi touch support for

- entering multiple notes at once on the piano roll

- entering multiple notes at once on the step sequencer layout
- turning more than one knob or slider at once

if any Fruity power users want me to test other features i'd be happy to.

i welcome all this windows 8 tablet / multitouch stuff if for no other reason then the competition might be just the thing to kick Apple in the ass and get them to open up the iPad more and start bringing multitouch support to the mac os & the macbooks. you just know that apple is working on this already but this might accelerate the timetable a bit.

 

as cool as it is the iPad is still a locked down / gimped device with no real access to the filesystem. the size is a bit small for professional use as well if you really want to get expressive or use something like reaktor or live.

 

i'm looking for a 15 inch iPad that runs a full version or the mac os and has a speedy cpu. reaktor on something like that would be a dream.

 

 

but your report is very encouraging, awe. i personally wouldn't be super-bothered by lack of multitouch in reaktor because usually your playing notes with one hand and tweaking a parameter with another. i could get along decently just tweaking one parameter at a time. the benefit of not having to map a bunch of parameters to your usb controller, or creating a bunch of controller layouts in something like touchosc is immense. just load the ensemble and everything is 1 to 1 right in front of you.

 

i'm curious how buggy reaktor is using it this way because this is all new territory (both the touch interface and windows 8). if it's pretty stable right out the gate i'll be very impressed.

I wonder if there's some ghetto way of routing TouchOsc ( http://hexler.net/software/touchosc ) onto the machine ?

Mcbpete, exactly what i was thinking. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to have a touch screen monitor act as a touchosc transmitter on the same device you want to receive it on. In fact there doesnt seem to be any support at all for non android/ipad/iphone touch screens that i can see.

 

After playing with Fruity Loops some more, there are only 2 synths that respond to multitouch

 

Harmor & Harmless. These seem to allow up to 10 multipoint touches at once, only problem is there is no way too zoom in or make the interface bigger (a full screen plugin zoom mode is needed to get the same effect as an ipad synth)

 

but overall i am extremely impressed by what Image-line managed to do so far. Using the piano roll with a touch screen is ridiculously satisfying, you can 'paint' rolls and velocity curves and automation much easier and musically than you can with a mouse (or at least than *I* can with a mouse). the chopping and moving around also seems to go much faster than if you were doing it with a mouse.

 

Digit, so far none of these seems 'buggy' in the sense that it causes crashes or instability. Since the touch screen monitor just basically replaces the mouse, i haven't noticed any change in the software's behavior. The most fun thing i've played with using reaktor so far are the button activated step sequencers. Something about directly tapping in the steps with your fingers like a real drum machine gets totally different results than point and click step sequencing.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Awepittance

boldly going where no other watmmer is going, yet.

 

interesting words awep

 

still definitely early days, but this could certainly be promising...

  On 12/3/2012 at 10:01 PM, oscillik said:

boldly going where no other watmmer is going, yet.

 

interesting words awep

 

still definitely early days, but this could certainly be promising...

as someone who has only ever used fl studio, and has composed pretty much solely by piano roll, you are making me really want a windows 8 tablet.

if they make it so you can use full multitouch on all vsts, I will officially start saving up.

 

Seems it shouldn't be that hard to do, as they could make absolutely everything compatible if they made a little front-end program that automatically mapped all of a vst's perimeters to basic FL Studio knobs or sliders for multitouch

Edited December 4, 2012 by ganus

I wouldn't be surprised if Fruity 11 had full blown multi touch support, Image-line seems fully dedicated to the platform. Ganus, am i missing any potentially cool touch integration? I havent used fruity in a very long time, ill test out anything you suggest.


I'll try to record a video showing all the touch support on Fruity 10.8 beta in a few days and post it here.


anybody here a registered Fruity user? Since i am not there really isn't a useful way to get multi-touch testing reports to them directly.

my next experiment is going to be with Max/Msp 6 for windows 8, in theory Max/msp supports multitouch from what im reading
going by what cycling 74 told me over the phone, they have no plans at the moment to integrate touch screen or multi touch functionality for Windows 8 touch screens. They are only working on apple and ipad touch screen compatibility for Lemur and touch osc. That's really a shame, but like everyone else in the music software world besides Image-line the apple hard-on seems to block out the sun itself making it hard to see this extremely amazing potential.

then there is this - http://www.gesturespark.com/

sort of a Lemur like app, but for Windows 7/8 that aggregates parameters from VSTs or other software programs to create a front-end for a touch screen monitor. Not finished being developed yet and will not be free.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Awepittance

oi guys..

 

Usine does this (multi-touch) for quite some time now..you can build custom interfaces, integrate your VSTs, OSC and everything..as far as i know, there is a new version(mac+pc) on its way.

 

[youtubehd]OS6xh5B7FLE[/youtubehd]

 

http://www.sensomusic.com/usine/

 

~io

Seems unlikely, but perhaps multiple instances of fruity X-Y controller would work? I sincerely doubt it, but if it did it would be quite handy.

Also, it wouldn't have multitouch in any case, but how smooth is editing automation clips in the playlist? It's kind of a pain currently, and I feel like it could be pretty intuitive with a touchscreen.

FL doesn't have a lot of fancy functions built in, so I can't really think of anything else

 

That front-end looks excellent - pretty much exactly what I was talking about too

  On 12/4/2012 at 9:19 AM, iococoi said:

oi guys..

 

Usine does this (multi-touch) for quite some time now..you can build custom interfaces, integrate your VSTs, OSC and everything..as far as i know, there is a new version(mac+pc) on its way.

 

 

wow! just got done trying this out after a few hours of tinkering and it's pretty awesome. Sort of a mixture between the template builder in the Lemur and audiomulch. Maybe Audiomulch isn't the most accurate comparison but it's simplicity and modular power seems sort of similar. It can run VSTs with Lemur style front ends to control them. The only drawback of it so far is i haven't found any preset templates for the Lemur-like portion. Overall though it's pretty ridiculous, this program has a HUGE amount of potential. Not as enjoyable to use on multitouch as fruity, but has full multi-touch support for everything i've tried. IT seems to be lacking the complexity of Fruity's piano roll, which once i used touch on it I'm eager to see a fully multi-touch and touch based piano roll of the same complexity.

  On 12/4/2012 at 9:20 AM, ganus said:

Seems unlikely, but perhaps multiple instances of fruity X-Y controller would work? I sincerely doubt it, but if it did it would be quite handy.

Also, it wouldn't have multitouch in any case, but how smooth is editing automation clips in the playlist? It's kind of a pain currently, and I feel like it could be pretty intuitive with a touchscreen.

FL doesn't have a lot of fancy functions built in, so I can't really think of anything else

 

That front-end looks excellent - pretty much exactly what I was talking about too

 

 

ok, so i tried the X-Y controllers, doesn't let you do 2 at once. Using one runs quite smoothly though. How in the hell do you assign the x-y to parameters?

 

when you say clips on the playlist, do you mean the automation curves ie: velocity values when you actually go into the clip itself? I'm not seeing any editable automation on the playlist window itself