I love you Eugene but what do you have to say about this?

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/08/24/israel-stop-unlawful-west-bank-home-demolitions

Note the careful use of the word 'war crime' because there isn't any military motivation behind these destructions of homes leading families, including children, to become refugees in their own land...

I love you Johnoise but what are you going to do about

It's time for you to wave your magic wand and solve this problem by yourself.

Chunky has posted in a thread regarding segments of the Jewish population.......

*gets popcorn, puts tinfoil helmet and anti-zionist mail on*

I'll take the bait...

Chunky, I never said that the palestinians are angels and israelis devils
I'm just pointing out that you can't act like you're about to engage in peace talks while forcefully displacing people out of their homes (which is a war crime by all international standards)

Read some Martin Van Creveld dudes. Great Israeli writer, very plain writing style. PDFs are googleable.

Ehm, perhaps my memory is screwed, but I can't remember Eugene being a full on supporter of everything the Israeli government does.

!?

Does Eugene really want the attention?

WATMM + racial issues =

I knew it, instead of adressing my points you just act like you know things better, and try to educate me with some reference...
Please Chunky, you are an educated and intelligent person so stop with these worthless tactics.

  On 8/26/2013 at 6:01 AM, goDel said:

Ehm, perhaps my memory is screwed, but I can't remember Eugene being a full on supporter of everything the Israeli government does.

!?

I didn't mean that but I remember him defending the new settlements :)

Do you really think it's remotely civil to single out a watmm member solely based on his country of origin and ask him to morally represent his government's actions? I think it's just plain ignorant.

BTW I just think you can't blame a guy on a music website because his government does something immoral. It's not like anyone on this site can affect things. So my joke is, you can sort out Belgium's issue with prostitutes with your magic wand.

Sun Tzu said that:

18. All warfare is based on deception.

If you wanted to change Israel's behaviour then you'd have to change their military doctrine, but their military doctrine is state of the art. Even though it hasn't been perfect they more than any other nation invest heavily in the intellectual side of war. A good alternative might be the motto of Oxford 'fortist est veritas', truth is strength. But you'd have to prove to the IDF that it works in reality rather than just moan and bitch about it.

Anyway I don't want to say anything else except please read Martin Van Creveld if you haven't already seen his books. They're really good. And this is to anyone and the reason is that his books are very good. I am reading them at the moment too. No other reason other than they are hella good!

Perhaps we can stop the world from being impressed by those horrible mathematical figurines built by slaves thousands of years ago...

And something must be done about belgian prostitutes...WATMM, U can do it.

  On 8/26/2013 at 6:11 AM, Salvatorin said:

Do you really think it's remotely civil to single out a watmm member solely based on his country of origin and ask him to morally represent his government's actions? I think it's just plain ignorant.

Whoa Whoa, I never meant to equate Eugene to the Israeli governement, I just wanted to have his opinion on the subject, knowing that he is better placed than anybody I know to debate this...

* thread is started on Israeli settlements *

*takes at least one page for the dust to settle and have some kind of civilized discussion*

*maybe more*

There is no such thing as civilized discussion when Israel/Palestine is the subject of said discussion.

I am all in favor of tossing racial epithets and cracking on chunky's nonsense.

  On 8/26/2013 at 6:12 AM, chunky said:

BTW I just think you can't blame a guy on a music website because his government does something immoral. It's not like anyone on this site can affect things. So my joke is, you can sort out Belgium's issue with prostitutes with your magic wand.

 

Sun Tzu said that:

 

18. All warfare is based on deception.

 

If you wanted to change Israel's behaviour then you'd have to change their military doctrine, but their military doctrine is state of the art. Even though it hasn't been perfect they more than any other nation invest heavily in the intellectual side of war. A good alternative might be the motto of Oxford 'fortist est veritas', truth is strength. But you'd have to prove to the IDF that it works in reality rather than just moan and bitch about it.

 

Anyway I don't want to say anything else except please read Martin Van Creveld if you haven't already seen his books. They're really good. And this is to anyone and the reason is that his books are very good. I am reading them at the moment too. No other reason other than they are hella good!

I will try to read them for sure.

But please try to understand that I'm not taking side here, just pointing the fact that there are international rules and some nations do not follow them (USA head first when it comes to Geneva convention :)) while claiming to be quite modern and respectful.

  On 8/26/2013 at 6:11 AM, Salvatorin said:

Do you really think it's remotely civil to single out a watmm member solely based on his country of origin and ask him to morally represent his government's actions? I think it's just plain ignorant.

Yeah I agree with this, I've always had that view but never quite knew how to articulate it. I can't imagine being the only American on a music forum and constantly name-checked and essentially put on trial in divisive political threads about the actions of the government I happen to live under.

  On 8/26/2013 at 6:39 AM, joshuatx said:

 

  On 8/26/2013 at 6:11 AM, Salvatorin said:

Do you really think it's remotely civil to single out a watmm member solely based on his country of origin and ask him to morally represent his government's actions? I think it's just plain ignorant.

 

Yeah I agree with this, I've always had that view but never quite knew how to articulate it. I can't imagine being the only American on a music forum and constantly name-checked and essentially put on trial in divisive political threads about the actions of the government I happen to live under.

 

in the OPs defense, he might want Eugene's opinion because Eugene is an Israeli citizen and thus would have far more direct exposure to these events than non-Israelis.

Thanks SR4.
I never meant this topic to be about the Israeli/palestinian conflict at large, I just wanted Eugene's opinion on the recent colonisation of palestinian land in light of the reset of peace talk.

I just hope some Israeli director makes a movie about the plight of the Palestinians where the Palestinians are portrayed as big insects to make them more palatable a la what District 9 did for black people so that after decades of dead children, bus bombings, and senseless violence we can at least get a pretty cool mech battle with some arab wailing in the background.

What a dumb thread.

Watto is more of a Jewish stereotype that Goebbels would be proud of. But then again, both Jews and Arabs are Semitic people, so I guess it's anti-semitic. Star Wars is pretty full of racist stereotypes when you think about it.

(without reading the article)

as far as i understand the final resolution will be based on 67 lines plus land swaps, so the palestinians will get land equal (or about equal, 97% was the number being thrown) to the size of west bank+gaza. so theoretically it doesn't really matter if settlements are getting expanded (though maybe there is something about land quality and water that i should look into) if that princple is upheld, and it probably us as otherwise palestinian wouldn't enter the negotiations. another things that "new housing units" in the settlements doesn't necessarily mean land grab, the last batch of of approved construction was to be done in already existing settlements.

regarding legal stuff it's a clusterfuck im not really capable of getting into, while it's true that the whole of west bank is regarded as a palestinian territory some land trade is being conducted anyway between the settlers and palestinian land owners, if there are expulsions it usually went through high court which isn't known for pro settlement bias so you need to look into each case specifically and why the expulsion actually happen, it's usually more complex than "x palestinains were expelled from their homes because israel is evil". there's also this mess with ottoman and british laws (that are still used as a basis for land claims) clashing with israeli ones and international ones that is impenetrable for me.

Great thread. Please Eugene, don't be blind to the truth. Do you really think that the people being expelled are being given somewhere else to live? Your government are trying to drive the Palestinian's away pure and simple.