Trying to track down all analog sequencer

so im trying to track down any sequencers, that have no digital electronics inside whatsoever. im talking not even the buttons, or the pattern selectors, or the LED screen or anything at all

 

ive been trying to track down even just one, and im having a real hard time. you see ideally, im trying to find one in which im able to program rhythms for beats, monophonic notation for melodies, as we as polyphonic notation for making chords

 

does such a thing exist? because i cant seem to find anything. kokoon had said he knew of some inside of the volca thread, but when i asked him for links he never replied

 

any leads would be helpful. thanks

you could try to put something like this together and instead of sending midi notes it sends voltages, an optical spinning disc with some kind of trigger output would probably be technically the easiest thing to make. Otherwise if you want it to all be circuitry and none of it digital, the thing would be fucking huge and probably be tedious circuit to build. I don't personally know of any commercially sold 'sequencers' that operate in this way. I think Raymond scott built a few of them using no digital components, which Moog then ripped off and started adding digital components. Someone else probably knows a lot more about this than i do though. I'm curious if something like what you're asking for even exists outside of a proof of concept

doing anything more than simple triggering on/off would be a lot more tricky with something purely analog, especially when building yourself. I could see a similar concept to this optical disc also working for pitched voltage/notes, have no idea how you would do something with chords though Edited September 16, 2013 by John Ehrlichman

dont think there's exactly what youre looking for

there was a new sequencer that came out recently by a guitar pedal company, electronic harmonix and it had 8 or 16 steps

 

"program rhythms for beats, monophonic notation for melodies, as we as polyphonic notation for making chords"

 

there's a gap in the market for a really decent analogue sequencer that you can make whole tracks on

 

i have a big analogue one with 64 steps but it's not good for programming a whole track on if you want to be really specific about where the notes go. it's better for loops and live stuff. it's limited. actually it has some digital components like logic gates and clocks.... the voltages are analogue but i dont think theres such a thing as a fully analogue sequencer, even the circuits that you put together with transistors are acting like switches i.e. 0s and 1s i.e. digital

 

808 can trigger rhythms, melodies from a monosynth like 101 or pro1, then polyphonic from a jx3p

modular synths can do this type of stuff but it gets even more expensive.

 

whichever company can put an 808, 101 and jx3p type of sequencing all in one little machine will be the winner ;-) (im not saying recreate these sounds, merely the sequencing functions)

 

edit: just remembered, i think it might be possible with something called an analogue shift register, you'd need enough stages for the amount of notes that you want to store as voltages.

 

do you mean something mechanical to play the notes for you or an electronic circuit and you are not so sure about the difference between analogue and digital?

Edited September 16, 2013 by chunky

Do you really know what you are looking for? Does this distinction even make sense when we're not talking about sampling technology?

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that runs software, then there are a lot of non digital sequencers.

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that utilizes comparators in order to impose boolean logic on top of analogue circuitry, then I don't think you'll find an analogue sequencer. By this definition CMOS chips or any small combination of switching transistors form a "digital" circuit.

 

If you really want an all analogue sequencer, you're probably limiting yourself to piano roll type solutions like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cI0M5DQZI

Cyndustries Milton 16 Step Sequencer or Serge TKB are probably as close as you'll get but they sure ain't cheap.

 

Milton Sequencer:

 

Serge TKB:

Edited September 16, 2013 by 2WV

 

The Oberkorn has MIDI, it is highly digital.

what's the point though?

 

check out this guy who builds mechanical computer things etc.: http://www.rlfbckr.org

I'm bringing out a modular version of what you require soon.....

"even though it's analog, it might not be analog enough."

watmm

Digital sequencers are too accurate, man!

yeah just too cold - inadequate for replicating that Richard D. James grooove

  On 9/16/2013 at 10:55 AM, psn said:

Do you really know what you are looking for? Does this distinction even make sense when we're not talking about sampling technology?

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that runs software, then there are a lot of non digital sequencers.

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that utilizes comparators in order to impose boolean logic on top of analogue circuitry, then I don't think you'll find an analogue sequencer. By this definition CMOS chips or any small combination of switching transistors form a "digital" circuit.

 

If you really want an all analogue sequencer, you're probably limiting yourself to piano roll type solutions like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cI0M5DQZI

 

That's digital too.

 

Digital = on off and discreet values. Basically the whole point of conventional sequencing is that it's digital, at least in part. Discrete values in time yo.

 

You could get a bunch of sine waves and run them into attenuators and then into gate and trigger ins. You might need amplifiers too, but if you amplified it too much it would turn into a square and become digital. The device that was reading the gates or triggers would basically read the signal as either high or low , on or off, 1,0, again = digital. Don't be a square man. Some shit you can freakout in cool ways, but you're better off buying a quantum computer sequencer if you want to break free of the confines off digital. Very rare. I'd sell mine, but they are super expensive. Seven figures.

I think what we have here is a fundamental lack of understanding as to why analog is preferable over digital. The only only only time that argument holds any water what so ever is in the context of audio signal path.

 

A (hypothetical) all analog sequencer has absolutely zero advantages over a digital one. Why would it? For one it would be either entirely mechanical, or baroque in terms of electrical complexity, all to recreate what a single integrate chip can do. For what gain? It won't sound better, or have any more life in a sequence than a digitally driven sequencer would. It would just be ungodly expensive, and extremely limited. A digital sequencer with 1000 clicks per quarter note will have much more timing resolution than a human could ever detect, meaning any kind of imperfection you wish to play with will be able to be expressed without limits. It won't "sound digital" unless you program it to.

 

Even the hardware CV sequencers posted here above are digitally driven. How is the timing handled? How can patterns be played in different directions? How is a knob position translated into a CV value? They all have a digital brain, which is outputting analog voltages.

 

jeez.

pwn imo itt tbh

I am mistaken.

Edited September 20, 2013 by EleminoP

Analog sequencer = bandmates

  On 9/20/2013 at 1:38 AM, modey said:

Analog sequencer = bandmates

 

  On 9/20/2013 at 1:38 AM, modey said:

Analog sequencer = bandmates

Ha! Tied for best answer.

  On 9/19/2013 at 11:07 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

I think what we have here is a fundamental lack of understanding as to why analog is preferable over digital. The only only only time that argument holds any water what so ever is in the context of audio signal path.

 

A (hypothetical) all analog sequencer has absolutely zero advantages over a digital one. Why would it? For one it would be either entirely mechanical, or baroque in terms of electrical complexity, all to recreate what a single integrate chip can do. For what gain? It won't sound better, or have any more life in a sequence than a digitally driven sequencer would. It would just be ungodly expensive, and extremely limited. A digital sequencer with 1000 clicks per quarter note will have much more timing resolution than a human could ever detect, meaning any kind of imperfection you wish to play with will be able to be expressed without limits. It won't "sound digital" unless you program it to.

 

Even the hardware CV sequencers posted here above are digitally driven. How is the timing handled? How can patterns be played in different directions? How is a knob position translated into a CV value? They all have a digital brain, which is outputting analog voltages.

 

jeez.

yeah pretty much this. the optical turntable idea could be done entirely with CV and it wouldnt be too hard to make one for simple drum triggering. The way you can do 'on the grid' patterns is by printing out a circular overlay with a grid divided into 16 even parts. For me this type of old school physicality would be interesting to try to sequence something with but not because its analog, just because it might be fun.

Edited September 20, 2013 by John Ehrlichman

  On 9/19/2013 at 2:52 AM, Jonah said:

 

  On 9/16/2013 at 10:55 AM, psn said:

Do you really know what you are looking for? Does this distinction even make sense when we're not talking about sampling technology?

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that runs software, then there are a lot of non digital sequencers.

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that utilizes comparators in order to impose boolean logic on top of analogue circuitry, then I don't think you'll find an analogue sequencer. By this definition CMOS chips or any small combination of switching transistors form a "digital" circuit.

 

If you really want an all analogue sequencer, you're probably limiting yourself to piano roll type solutions like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cI0M5DQZI

 

That's digital too.

 

Digital = on off

 

thats a very broad definition of digital, if you follow the definition an analog square wave oscillator is 'digital' too. seems a little bit unnecessary to encompass anything that resembles on/off

A music box ain't digital nor analog electronics. It's mechanical.

mechanical= full steam ahead, Captain!

  On 9/19/2013 at 2:52 AM, Jonah said:

That's digital too.

 

Digital = on off and discreet values. Basically the whole point of conventional sequencing is that it's digital, at least in part. Discrete values in time yo.

 

 

Digital = discrete values

Binary = on off, true false, 0 1

 

Anyway, "analogue" does not have to be electronic. An analogue camera can be wholly mechanical. Is it common use the term digital outside the realm of electronics?

Edited September 22, 2013 by psn

I thought the original post was a joke, but since every one else is being serious....

 

The fun thing about analog sequencers is you can separate the gate values from the note values (also why monomachine is fun). This is pro lazyness. Take a simple sequence, jam parts on and off, get many permutations quickly and intuitively. Remove all the buttons and switches, why not just play some damn drum pads.. or drums.

 

How are you going to record it without using buttons or switches? Pull a tape reel through a machine by hand?

  On 9/20/2013 at 10:58 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 9/19/2013 at 2:52 AM, Jonah said:

 

  On 9/16/2013 at 10:55 AM, psn said:

Do you really know what you are looking for? Does this distinction even make sense when we're not talking about sampling technology?

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that runs software, then there are a lot of non digital sequencers.

 

If by "digital" you mean an electronic device that utilizes comparators in order to impose boolean logic on top of analogue circuitry, then I don't think you'll find an analogue sequencer. By this definition CMOS chips or any small combination of switching transistors form a "digital" circuit.

 

If you really want an all analogue sequencer, you're probably limiting yourself to piano roll type solutions like this:

 

 

That's digital too.

 

Digital = on off

 

thats a very broad definition of digital, if you follow the definition an analog square wave oscillator is 'digital' too. seems a little bit unnecessary to encompass anything that resembles on/off

 

 

Well, yeah, if you believe wikipedia:

  Quote

Square waves are universally encountered in digital switching circuits and are naturally generated by binary (two-level) logic devices. They are used as timing references or "clock signals", because their fast transitions are suitable for triggering synchronous logic circuits at precisely determined intervals.

 

 

That optical turntable is cool (another way of looking at a sine wave, yeah?) you could plug it into something that uses drum triggers, but anything semi modern once it senses enough it'll go from off to on. You might be able to find some analog drum brains from like the 70s. Or I guess wire it to a voltage controlled amplifiers or attenuators that have a signal going through them constantly. I think that's similar to how some of those old "barrel" style drum machines work.

 

I like to use compressors with side chain audio inputs. I think the ms20 has an envelope follower/ pitch tracker that could be used for this purpose?

 

Could also use temperature sensors, magnets, barometric pressure, vibration(I've seen someone using sensors on a Newton's Cradle (those metal balls that bounce off each other, I had to look it up).) anything having to do with physical phenomena. I think it only really sounds interesting when sensors break - that is can't find the on/off point and rapidly switch back and forth, but they try to engineer that out of stuff. I guess it's called Hysteresis?