Vatican Shadow - Remember Your Black Day

Out 10/21 in the US:

Track titles are as tasty as ever:

01. Circumstances Quickly Became Questioned

02. Tonight Saddam Walks Amidst Ruins

03. Muscle Hijacker Tribal Affiliation

04. Contractor Corpses Hung Over The Euphrates River

05. Enter Paradise

06. Remember Your Black Day

07. Not The Son Of Desert Storm, But The Child Of Chechnya

08. Jet Fumes Above The Reflecting Pool

http://youtu.be/DwVsVGqG0NQ

I've generally been more into the Prurient releases, but these tracks seem promising.

I'm a fan of his VS output, so I'm looking forward to this. I like the cover and title a lot.

sounds extremely amateur hour. Are people really loving his stuff?

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

predictable animosity towards Vatican Shadow

Enter Paradise sounds really good!

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sounds extremely amateur hour. Are people really loving his stuff?

i've never enjoyed his vs output. i prefer his prurient stuff and some of the force publique congo releases

  On 10/14/2013 at 2:31 AM, Nebraska said:

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sounds extremely amateur hour. Are people really loving his stuff?

 

i've never enjoyed his vs output. i prefer his prurient stuff and some of the force publique congo releases

 

yeah i like some Pruient.

  On 10/9/2013 at 1:30 PM, Ron Manager said:

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

predictable animosity towards Vatican Shadow

 

predictable in what sense? That you know I'm a muslimgauze fan and that Bryn Jones' corpse would obliterate VA's ass in a fight

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sounds extremely amateur hour. Are people really loving his stuff?

Seems like it, and not sure why. 'Enter Paradise' sounds like if Metallica went techno lol. It's also possible that people are just buying into Boomkat's propaganda; anything Dominick Fernow releases is automatically record of the week.

  On 10/14/2013 at 3:22 AM, Tauhid said:

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sounds extremely amateur hour. Are people really loving his stuff?

 

Seems like it, and not sure why. 'Enter Paradise' sounds like if Metallica went techno lol. It's also possible that people are just buying into Boomkat's propaganda; anything Dominick Fernow releases is automatically record of the week.

 

it's just shocking to me. I know that he's been around for a while and whatever, but seriously that sound Enter Paradise sounds far far worse than things people regularly make fun of here ie: Flashbulb.

  On 10/14/2013 at 2:38 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

  On 10/9/2013 at 1:30 PM, Ron Manager said:

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

predictable animosity towards Vatican Shadow

 

predictable in what sense? That you know I'm a muslimgauze fan and that Bryn Jones' corpse would obliterate VA's ass in a fight

 

predictable in the sense that you only ever seem to post in VS threads to slag him off. I like Muslimgauze too, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not a total VS fanboy either - the videos of live performances I've seen have looked pretty mediocre, but I still enjoy a good amount of his studio output. I'm with you insofar as that he has been overinflated, especially by the Boomkat hype machine (and their dubious non-disclosure when they're principal distributor for certain labels), but ultimately I like his music, so my comment was borne out of irritation of seeing that you'd posted in this thread, and then reading a post which is precisely the kind of thing you tend to post in VS discussion. I presume you visit these threads because you're open-minded about Dominick Fernow potentially churning out something palatable to you, but all the same, it gets a little tedious to be constantly reminded that you think he's derivative and amateur.

i continue to be baffled by people getting irritated when some one posts something critical in a music discussion thread. it's not the "music complements" forum. being critical and sharing why can be just as important as sharing why you enjoy something. in fact, so many "positive" posts are completely unconstructive but I've never heard anyone complain about posts like "excited!" or "yay!" or something. I can certainly understand people being annoyed if someone is a downer and just has a shitty attitude but I think there are plenty of people posting on this forum like john erlichman who are capable of a wide variety of discussion and contribute many positive things as well as critical.

it does seem like it's hard to be critical of music here without people taking it personally and having an emotional response. I don't think an emotional reaction is invalid and i would like to respect that but at the same time this is the forum for discussing music, and any good discussion is likely going to have a critical component. if some one is being an asshole that's one thing but if some one is sharing a valid opinion in a reasonable manner than I honestly don't see the problem.

that being said i don't mean to pick on you, ron manager, especially since you took the time to articulate what bothered you and it's all good.

all very fair points, and you touch on things I was thinking about as I was typing out my post above. clearly most of us are here to share our views on music, and I'm not at all insinuating that this forum should be just for singing praises. and absolutely, on the whole I find John Ehrlichman's posts to be extremely informative and I've learned an awful lot by following up links and suggestions from him. I guess I just felt in this instance (i.e. Vatican Shadow) that John seems to begrudge the relative success Fernow has had with this project. but anyhow, I didn't intend to make it a personal thing - as clearly illustrated in this thread above and elsewhere, John isn't the only person puzzled by the appeal of VS.

i most definitely did not mean to single you out, i do think your response makes it clear you realize that but just in case i wanted to reiterate that.

being critical of music can be tricky bc we all have lots of baggage we could be bringing to the situation without realizing it, projecting our own personal insecurities or whatever into a situation. lately I've been feeling that myself with the opn record and the humongous hype machine surrounding his career. it's hard not to pause and analyze oneself and consider the possibility that envy or jealousy might be at work. but I suppose that's why it's cool to have a music discussion forum so we can articulate our thoughts and form our positions more clearly. of course, just being like "this blows" is flippant and unhelpful and i often feel critical comments are too charged with unwarranted negativity, however, i often feel i benefit from sincere criticism even of things i like bc it helps to widen my perspective and reconsider things which can contribute to freshness in my mind.

at this point I'm just rambling i guess. this has been on my mind lately, specifically from the opn thread wherein people were sometimes being intolerant of any contrary ideas, trivializing them and trying to eliminate them from discussion. salvatorin even tried to get himself banned which I doubt he would have done had the thread been 100% "this album is a true work of art" posts.

anyway, vatican shadow sucks.

The music under this alias just sounds so stiff and vapid. I'm perplexed at why people would want to listen to AK-47 style percussive patterns with drab, lo-fi synth layers on top (or corny guitar riffs in some cases). It feels like there's no room for interpretation with the music under this alias; here's some dusty, militaristic Middle East sounding stuff, and you connect it with such imagery because it's plastered all over his album covers and song titles. It's so in your face. The music is also stuck in this grey area: it doesn't want to be that dark and potentially oppressive, but it doesn't want to be very melodic or rhythmic either. That's my beef.

Well, I can see John Ehrlichman's point here- there is no answering why he uses the militant imaginery so much for EPs, albums and live recordings. And you can see the point over to Muslimgauze who has always been clear in interviews about his topics and musical theories. That is indeed a big difference when you compare them.

I must admit honestly that I nevertheless enjoy VS- not the concept but only the music, reduced to the sound and not the in your ass images he uses. Even if you can say he comes years to late, he has brought some refreshing vibe into the old industrial. Alberich as well. But I say that with 26 years, missing entirely the 80ties tape movement and the near-3rd world war age.

I've never gotten into Prurient, and his discog is huge. Any albums/Ep's you would recommend?

  On 10/14/2013 at 3:22 AM, Tauhid said:

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 8:21 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sounds extremely amateur hour. Are people really loving his stuff?

 

Seems like it, and not sure why. 'Enter Paradise' sounds like if Metallica went techno lol. It's also possible that people are just buying into Boomkat's propaganda; anything Dominick Fernow releases is automatically record of the week.

 

you know- this is the exact same reason some people don't like him in the noise scene

  On 10/14/2013 at 9:47 PM, Drix said:

I've never gotten into Prurient, and his discog is huge. Any albums/Ep's you would recommend?

check out:

cocaine death

the history of aids

and still, wanting

pleasure ground

black vase

I agree that the fact that he seemingly has no politics to reflect his Middle Eastern political/military aesthetic is odd. So yeah, it's superficial, but ultimately the titles and imagery suit the music, and they don't bother me. is it really that different from, say, the whole Drexciyan aesthetic? some of that stuff is corny but it doesn't impact my appreciation of the music. it's just a guiding design principle at the end of the day. and contrary to what Tauhid said, on one level the fact that VS refuses to talk about his politics rather leaves it completely open to interpretation what (if anything at all) his message is.

  On 10/14/2013 at 2:28 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

lately I've been feeling that myself with the opn record and the humongous hype machine surrounding his career.

...

 

this has been on my mind lately, specifically from the opn thread wherein people were sometimes being intolerant of any contrary ideas, trivializing them and trying to eliminate them from discussion.

yeah, I've had some of the stuff from the OPN thread in mind recently too. I haven't contributed much of anything to the discussion there, but I've been following it with interest. OPN and VS are similar in that I imagine a VS album coming out on Warp would spawn a similar 40-page thread. also, no worries, I didn't take your comment personally at all bra.

  On 10/14/2013 at 11:23 PM, Ron Manager said:

and contrary to what Tauhid said, on one level the fact that VS refuses to talk about his politics rather leaves it completely open to interpretation what (if anything at all) his message is.

I meant this more about the actual content, rather than any message conveyed. I feel like the artwork and song titles are so blatant that you can't help but think about that stuff when you listen to it. The music doesn't really get to speak for itself, in my opinion.

  On 10/15/2013 at 1:20 AM, Tauhid said:

 

  On 10/14/2013 at 11:23 PM, Ron Manager said:

and contrary to what Tauhid said, on one level the fact that VS refuses to talk about his politics rather leaves it completely open to interpretation what (if anything at all) his message is.

 

I meant this more about the actual content, rather than any message conveyed. I feel like the artwork and song titles are so blatant that you can't help but think about that stuff when you listen to it. The music doesn't really get to speak for itself, in my opinion.

 

The cassette only format of a few of his releases (the ones about the Bin Laden raid specifically) seems to enhance the gimmick.

  On 10/14/2013 at 5:53 PM, MarinaStewart said:

Well, I can see John Ehrlichman's point here- there is no answering why he uses the militant imaginery so much for EPs, albums and live recordings. And you can see the point over to Muslimgauze who has always been clear in interviews about his topics and musical theories. That is indeed a big difference when you compare them.

 

I must admit honestly that I nevertheless enjoy VS- not the concept but only the music, reduced to the sound and not the in your ass images he uses. Even if you can say he comes years to late, he has brought some refreshing vibe into the old industrial. Alberich as well. But I say that with 26 years, missing entirely the 80ties tape movement and the near-3rd world war age.

I completely get this angle. I can see the immediate appeal of VS both in the actual music and even in the debatable shtick, , especially as a collector oriented fan. (Has he really not had any interviews about his ideology or ethos in the project? That seems incredible considering how much has been put out.) I don't have enough of an issue to join in the criticism but I will say this, I find his press via boomkat, RA, pitchfork, etc. is much like the OPN press. It's very much manufactured - but then again he's got connections and labelmates like Andy Stott and Demdike Stare. Even as someone only now diving into the tape label community, and likewise having only a cursory awareness of the long and storied noise and industrial tape movement, I can say that VS has no major reason to stand out from what I've heard.

But I don't know Vatican Shadow's output in detail, to be fair. Is there a release you'd recommend Ron?

edit: closet thing to mention any ideological aspect to VS, and the general conclusion is it's not political but more or less using the War on Terror as a muse - http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/magazine/dominick-fernow-guide-feature

I don't want to criticize VS at all actually, but as usual point the finger to the lazy, bullshit hype machine that is online music journalism, the same community that regularly waxes poetic praise for misogynistic and materialistic rap and rock (because it's meta or ironic or whatever) yet will make a controversy out of a male electronic producer's feminist-oriented EP - I'm not at all shocked that no journalist or reviewer has pried into, let alone question, the goals and motivations behind a project like Vatican Shadow.

my personal recommendations would be:

Atta's Apartment Slated For Demolition -> youtube

Ghosts of Chechnya -> youtube

both were reissued on It Stands To Conceal.

  On 10/15/2013 at 9:24 AM, Ron Manager said:

my personal recommendations would be:

 

Atta's Apartment Slated For Demolition -> youtube

 

Ghosts of Chechnya -> youtube

 

both were reissued on It Stands To Conceal.

It Stands To Conceal is a great work- I have to say that I found it rather difficult to get into the repetitions on the release itself, but after several listenings it has really grown on me.

The bonus material in the digital is also top notch. And it's an LP set that features a lesser militant design overall.

  On 10/15/2013 at 4:05 AM, joshuatx said:

edit: closet thing to mention any ideological aspect to VS, and the general conclusion is it's not political but more or less using the War on Terror as a muse - http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/magazine/dominick-fernow-guide-feature

major lols at that red bull music academy interview, Bryn Jones rolls in his grave once again. holy god