Corruption/bribes/kickbacks

Anyone ever had to give a bribe? Take one?

I recently lost out on a big contract after refusing to give a kickback to a "friend". It's really pissed me off and made me kind of sick to my stomach. Sometimes I wonder if I'm too honest for biz, but it just bothers me on a gut level to stack the odds like that, get into bed with someone in that way.

I don't mind paying a finder's fee if someone brings me work. But I don't like giving someone money suddenly "just because", with only vague assurances of what the benefit might be.

Your guys thoughts/experiences?

No personal experience with bribes & whatnot, but in my opinion, it's best to play above board instead of dealing with unforeseen problems later that can come back at you & not the "friend":

money talks and bullshit walks

You still live and work in China, right? I thought doing business that way there was the norm?

it was like an integral part of interaction with any kind of bureaucracy in mid 90's russia from what i remember and what my parents told me, every kind of request from officials was expected to be supplemented with some kind of a gift (chocolates, expensive alcohol, money etc) otherwise you couldn't be sure that that particular official will actually do what he's supposed to do.

when me and my family moved to israel we took our family dog with us, the airport workers (movers) hinted that the wooden dog cage couldn't be guaranteed to be taken care of properly without a little extra. so my mom gave them 10$ which they accepted while showing dissatisfaction with their facial expression because another person just gave them 15$ for her dog cage to be taken care of. obviously it left us with this awful, nagging feeling that it wasn't enough. but it turned out alright after all, the cage and our dog inside of it wasn't damaged or hurt during the flight.

today, i bribed a man to make me a sandwich, also bribed 2 different grocery stores to give me items such as apple juice, chips, candy, and lots of other stuff that they would never give me if i was just some guy who walked in and smiled at them.

they sure as hell wouldn't read my mind and deliver to me these things. i most certainly had to coerce them using moneys.

  On 12/2/2013 at 9:06 PM, skibby said:

today, i bribed a man to make me a sandwich, also bribed 2 different grocery stores to give me items such as apple juice, chips, candy, and lots of other stuff that they would never give me if i was just some guy who walked in and smiled at them.

 

they sure as hell wouldn't read my mind and deliver to me these things. i most certainly had to coerce them using moneys.

I see what you did there. har. har.

  On 12/2/2013 at 9:06 PM, skibby said:

today, i bribed a man to make me a sandwich, also bribed 2 different grocery stores to give me items such as apple juice, chips, candy, and lots of other stuff that they would never give me if i was just some guy who walked in and smiled at them.

 

they sure as hell wouldn't read my mind and deliver to me these things. i most certainly had to coerce them using moneys.

  On 12/2/2013 at 7:58 PM, lumpenprol said:

Anyone ever had to give a bribe? Take one?

 

I recently lost out on a big contract after refusing to give a kickback to a "friend". It's really pissed me off and made me kind of sick to my stomach. Sometimes I wonder if I'm too honest for biz, but it just bothers me on a gut level to stack the odds like that, get into bed with someone in that way.

 

I don't mind paying a finder's fee if someone brings me work. But I don't like giving someone money suddenly "just because", with only vague assurances of what the benefit might be.

 

Your guys thoughts/experiences?

is this in the gamedev business or am I remembering that wrong? that's the last industry I would expect to have kickbacks/bribing going on, but I guess when it gets big enough and especially when there are contracts involved, it's inevitable.

  On 12/2/2013 at 8:50 PM, eugene said:

it was like an integral part of interaction with any kind of bureaucracy in mid 90's russia from what i remember and what my parents told me, every kind of request from officials was expected to be supplemented with some kind of a gift (chocolates, expensive alcohol, money etc) otherwise you couldn't be sure that that particular official will actually do what he's supposed to do.

 

I get the impression that this is the case in the developing world as well as large, bureaucratic countries like India, Mexico, Brazil, etc - small bribes are so common it's practically a standard. If you want a job done well and/or quickly, you bribe those involved. It was a necessary evil to maintain stability in some countries: many have pointed out the drug war in Mexico exploded partly when the political situation there became unstable. When it was a one-party system before the late 90s there was far less violence and chaos.

Corruption is rampant at the highest levels of US government yet seemingly unnoticed. The blames is almost always pointed elsewhere. It runs (and is ruining) Defense spending contracts, and is the real reason the U.S. healthcare system is so horrendously inefficient and unfair. It stains every form of budget spending and legal policy.

It's remarkable how much the Republican versus Democrat "divide" is just a front, especially at the Federal level and in big states like California, NY, and Texas. Legislators that lose bitter elections literally show up at the capitols again as paid lobbyists, often with much higher pay and benefits. That's why the thrive off of partisan politics, rely on campaign donations, and do everything they can to keep citizens uninformed. So many have nothing to lose and no shame in their ulterior motives.

^^^ they just call it lobbying in the states/canada/global north

I know my girlfriends old man bribed off a large union during negotiations and industrial actions a few years back which kinda undermined the integrity of union and it's leaders more than anything else. He was ultimately just doing his job and trying to put the company back into profit sadly at the expense of larger job centre cues. Other Unions know exactly what happened but don't really like to talk about it.

Another friend of mine, amongst other things, used to flirt with random older female executives on the phone promising them a free lunch when selling insurance and they loved it! Now years later he now works in arms sales looking to buy his first Porsche which he's wanted since the age of ten.

Both of these people are the most motivated career orientated people I know and they've worked very hard to get where they are but I feel quick thinking and good communication or 'gift of the gab' is going to make something that's essentially a little shady a lot easier to swallow and business is business at the end of the day.

Politicians or public servants go who's role 'in theory' is to benefit and serve of the public so taking bribes for capitalist gain over the well being of the masses should be dealt with accordingly but the reality is they can easily get away with it. I know the government contracts for office/IT equipment always seem to be radically overpriced so you know someone's somewhere will be getting a fuller xmas stocking at the expense of the tax payer.

Friendly deal sealer's or bent corruption? It's a very grey area.

  On 12/3/2013 at 1:41 AM, joshuatx said:

Corruption is rampant at the highest levels of US government yet seemingly unnoticed. The blames is almost always pointed elsewhere. It runs (and is ruining) Defense spending contracts, and is the real reason the U.S. healthcare system is so horrendously inefficient and unfair. It stains every form of budget spending and legal policy.

 

It's remarkable how much the Republican versus Democrat "divide" is just a front, especially at the Federal level and in big states like California, NY, and Texas. Legislators that lose bitter elections literally show up at the capitols again as paid lobbyists, often with much higher pay and benefits. That's why the thrive off of partisan politics, rely on campaign donations, and do everything they can to keep citizens uninformed. So many have nothing to lose and no shame in their ulterior motives.

QFT. I've inherited a deep-seated loathing of politics and politicians from my father (via his father):

"I used to think all politicians were cheap whores, but I was wrong. There's nothing cheap about them."

Just to add to what you said JT, it's hardly any better here in the biggest little state (RI), in fact I'd put us up in the pantheon of modern American corruption. A state-backed $85 million loan to Curt Shilling so he could relocate his video game company to our state (u know, fer jobs) only for it to go tits up less than a year later. Then our General Treasurer pushes through pension "reform" with the help of (surprise!) loads of anonymous $uperpac $upport, which just happens to involve investing a good deal of public monies in hedge funds, easy pickings for her cronies to the tune of millions. And yet this woman is the presumptive favorite for next year's Governor's race

I know we get the government we deserve, etc. but I hate how next to impossible it is to have a rational, objective discourse about social issues and justice.

If you're ever driving down a Thai highway as a tourist looking type (ie not Thai looking), always keep a couple hundred baht handy or a bag full of beers. If the police pull you over at a checkpoint (and they likely will), instead of taking your license and telling you to collect it from the post office, just hand them your license with 100baht, or give them the beers and they'll send you on your merry way.

Source: experience.

Obel I took your advice and now I am dead

rip in piece