vinyl setups

I'm looking into a new vinyl setup for my house. school me on some decent setups that won't cost me thousands. does anyone have the pro ject carbon?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007XTE6YW/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A14FMGGKFTICNN

I have the pro-ject debut carbon 3 yes, really an awesome turntable + you can rip vinyl to mp3. Built in pre-amp etc etc.

It also has a heavyweight platter. Comes with ortofon 2m red cartridge which is alright, but I prefer the 2m blue.

I've had no problems with it, highly recommended (especially for the price!)

I thought that needed a preamp? I was looking at this reveiver too

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003R7KMTC/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AOZWLI7UMXLIU

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology or something....

Here's what happened.

The debut 3 carbon is my first turntable. I hooked it up to my phono input on my receiver (which is basically a pre-amp built into the receiver) and it wouldn't work. I called the shop for help. They said... are you hooking it up into the phono stage? I said yes. They said "it already has a pre-amp built in, just hook it up to a regular input like aux or cd player". I did that and it works.

So unless my understanding of the phono stage in a receiver (which is that the phono stage is a preamp before sending the signal to your power amp) is incorrect, yes the carbon 3 has a built in preamp.

Sorry for the long response but I'm a turntable noob and that's how it happened...lol!

edit: I hope that helps. Pro-ject website is down for some reason so I can't get the official specs.

yea definitely helps. thanks!

what about u-turn audio? is this crap?

http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/orbit-plus-turntable

I've never heard of u-turn audio, maybe someone else can give some feedback here....

The dealer I went to said that the only thing that compares to the pro-ject debut 3 carbon for under $500 is the Rega RP1.

I don't have enough experience to say whether he was bs'ing me or not be he had a pretty "don't care if you buy anything I don't make commission" vibe to him.

The Rega RP1 is similar to the pro-ject carbon, heavyweight platter, great cartridge, lightweight tonearm...

I can't find much on u-turn audio. They might have a good product, but I'd go with a more established brand such as the rega or project, just in case...

yea that's what I was thinking. the rega is even more than the carbon though. plus I have other shit to buy as well.

U-turn is a new company (kickstarter funded I believe?), but from what I've read, they are great quality, in line with the Pro-ject you posted. Note I don't have any experience with either of them though.

Don't forget to troll your local craigslist for a while before splurging on a new setup, that is how I furnished my entire first setup. I got an 80's pioneer receiver and technics SL-D2 on the cheap. I put a new cartridge on the turntable and its served me well.

I've since inherited a rather nice belt-driven turntable from family (Sota Comet) but I still use the technics on occasion because of its auto-return and variable pitch control. So its worth thinking about what features are worth to you. Maybe ill take some pics later, i'd enjoy a 'vinyl setups pics' thread

^ I was thinking that too but since I don't have too much vinyl exp, I thought it might be easier to buy new for the record player at least. amps I think I might be able to find cheaper.

Stephen, I think the debut carbon I'm looking at is different than the one you have

http://turntablelab.com/products/pro-ject-debut-carbon-turntable-piano-black-2m-r?s=recomatic

I just bought a Lenco L75 turntable from an old audiofile on Craigslist. They are pricey but worth it. I have yet to set it up because I am waiting to get my entertainment center and Marantxz amp I say go vintage all the way for listening turntables and or highend sampling for DJing nothing beats the Technique 1200's.

those 1200's are expensive used and I'd be scared of getting s beat up dj'd today hell one.

how much difference does the pre-amp make in terms of quality? I obviously can't afford some crazy tube amp. is there a major difference in the $100/$150 range?

this newer reveiver has a phono input, does that mean I do not need a preamp with this?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003R7KMTC/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AOZWLI7UMXLIU

^{Do a local search on Ebay also. I got a Akai AP-206c for £60 off Ebay recently. You can limit the search results then search for a general opinion about any turntables that you like the look of. I wanted a heavy beast so I was on the lookout for anything by Rotal or Akai but the higher end.}

I have a project debut 3, with an upgraded stylus (can't remember what). It has served me fine. The Riga is ok also. Both are popular here in the UK, and have been the benchmark for entry level decks for the past 10 years or so. The u-turn looks like an american take on the project debut. I imagine it's absolutely fine, and you may get a bit more bang for your buck if its a US company.

I use the built in phono stage on my Arcam 65 plus with Monitor audio bronze speakers. The speakers are quite hyped, but I find that works for vinyl with the relatively tame arcam and deck. Never felt the need to upgrade to a dedicated pre-amp, would look at deck, speakers and then amp first before upgrading.

  On 11/3/2014 at 12:30 PM, jules said:

this newer reveiver has a phono input, does that mean I do not need a preamp with this?

As far as I know, thats correct. I've always gone directly from turntable to a phono input, such as on that Marantz.

awesome. thanks fellas.

I see project now has a newer debut carbon with the speedbox built in. is all that a bunch of fine tuning that I won't really need out of the box?

http://turntablelab.com/pages/the-difference-between-pro-ject-debut-carbon-debut-and-carbon-dc-turntables

I did have a rega fono mini to pair with amps with shit/no phono stage. Did a great job and not too expensive. There are some great bargains out there 2nd hand though when it comes to all this gear. I had a techy guy replace the phono cables in my technics sl1200s and internally wire the ground, opened up lots more options for me in terms of using them with gear without a grounding post.

  On 11/3/2014 at 5:54 PM, jules said:

awesome. thanks fellas.

 

I see project now has a newer debut carbon with the speedbox built in. is all that a bunch of fine tuning that I won't really need out of the box?

http://turntablelab.com/pages/the-difference-between-pro-ject-debut-carbon-debut-and-carbon-dc-turntables

if you get the debut without the speedbox built in it means you'll have to lift the platter and move the position of the belt in order to change between 33/45. doing this manually is absolutely not a big deal and takes like 30 seconds but some might consider it a pain.

the project debut is a great and painless turntable. if you get an amp/receiver with a phono in (with the ground chassis -- the thing you screw the ground clip into) then you do not need a pre-amp bc it already has a phono pre-amp stage built in.

i recommend the project. it's simple and lush.

Look for a used technics sl-1200 with a denon dl103 mc, then get a decent phono stage.

voila!

seriously, the projek turntable may be decent, but you cannot beat a used technic sl 1200 for the price. best bang for the buck.

the projek seems quite cheap, I wouldnt go for it.

  On 11/3/2014 at 7:17 PM, murphythecat8 said:

Look for a used technics sl-1200 with a denon dl103 mc, then get a decent phono stage.

voila!

 

seriously, the projek turntable may be decent, but you cannot beat a used technic sl 1200 for the price. best bang for the buck.

the projek seems quite cheap, I wouldnt go for it.

i would also recommend a 1200 bc they are built like tanks.

the project, however, is by no means "quite cheap." i've had one for several years and it still sounds as great as it did on the first day i bought it new.

both turntables are a sure bet imo. they don't make the 1200s anymore though so if you invest in one you will may be vulnerable to the perils that can come with used gear. but i have a 1200 from like 15 years ago and it's still going strong.

i've been looking for a reasonably priced sl 1200 for quite some time.

they go for a premium since being discontinued. Seems their (well deserved) reputation caught up with the second-hand market, at least in my area I can only find people asking for 500+ per deck

  On 11/3/2014 at 7:44 PM, Marked x 0ne said:

i've been looking for a reasonably priced 1200 for quite some time :(

 

they go for a premium since being discontinued. Seems their (well deserved) reputation caught up with the second-hand market, at least in my area I can only find people asking for 500+ per deck

yeah, best bang for the buck is sl-1200. especially if you build a plateform for it.

I think I paid for mine 3 years ago for like 200$. but back then, they were still being produced and I got a 15 years old one. You dont need the new version, the original is good enough. anyways, for 300$ for a sl-1200, you have something really decent.

I think though that they need some work. the plastic case really induce noise.

For anyone interested, ive modded my sl-1200. adding weight to the bottom case really make a difference in the sound as well as speed stability. then, a plateform to isolate the TT also really helps!

I also have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, the older AC version. Bought it a few months ago before the DC thing started trickling out. The sound quality is great. Actually blasting the Hi Scores reissue this weekend on it was fairly shocking, sounded so punchy and detailed and beautiful. My wife usually isn't swayed too much by vinyl, but she ran into the room and exclaimed that it sounded fucking awesome.

I run the Carbon to an Art DJ Pre II, which you can usually find for about $40-50 USD, and then directly into my Audiengine A5 speakers.

The Debut Carbon isn't perfect, though. I've had a few issues, none of which make me regret buying it, but it's important to note that it's not quite flawless.

One issue: changing the belt is easy enough, but the spindle and the motor are slightly free floating and the spindle assembly popped right out when pulling off the platter once, which was unexpected, and the resulting pull on the motor caused the motor to pop up a bit too. The fix was literally just a matter of lightly pushing things back into place, but it was terrifying for a moment as I thought I'd fucked up my new, fairly expensive music pal.

Second issue, and one you'll see repeated if you search around on the internets: the Debut Carbon hums a bit. It's rumble, really. It's basically inaudible when playing music and I can't hear it when I'm sitting on my couch even between tracks, etc. But when placing the stylus with my ear near the speakers, there's a bit of noise, almost like a ground hum, which only occurs when the stylus makes contact (so it's not ground hum). If I crank the speakers beyond pleasant listening levels, it's really obvious. You can basically feel the plinth vibrate when the motor is running, too -- the motor is basically just not isolated 100% and it transfers a bit of vibration to the stylus. The hi-pass/rumble feature on the DJ Pre II doesn't make a difference.

There are fixes for the rumble issue which I haven't tried, because the listening experience when I just relax and forget about it is wonderful. If you're going to do needle drops, though, some of that noise might transfer more obviously than it does with room listening. Some people just install little washers (over the current rubber washers which are meant to isolate the motor), and that supposedly works.¹ Some people say a Speed Box works (and of course, some people say a Speed Box makes it worse). I might try the acrylic platter and see if that reduces rumble transfer, because while the platter on the Carbon is heavy and decent, it's a bit resonant (if you flick it with your fingertip it rings a bit).

The new DC version of the Carbon might solve those issues. Kind of wish I'd known about them before I purchased.

I can recommend the Needle Doctor for shopping online. Their customer service is very good, and they'll help you with stupid questions (I had a ton of stupid questions with my previous turntable, being new to turntables, and they helped me out even though I'd never bought anything from them). I don't know if they're selling the DC version, though.

Really love the sound of the 2M Red.

I've seen reviews on the U-Turns by the way, which indicate that they are much less adjustable than the Carbon and much more prone to nasty amounts of wow/flutter.

The 1200s are great but I couldn't find a nice enough example for a decent enough price, basically.

So with the above caveats, I really like my Debut Carbon.

¹ Actually, this is maybe important to note: there are design differences between "Debut 3" and "Debut Carbon" models. The Debut 3s actually have transport screws that are supposed to be removed before use. The later Debut Carbon models do not: there is a suspension system which uses screws to float everything on little sorbothane washers. If you remove the screws on the Debut Carbon, the thing will hum like crazy. If you tighten them, you might get less hum or more hum. If you loosen them a bit, you might get less hum or more hum. So people with hum issues have been tweaking the suspension accordingly, but there's no one-fix solution for everyone, apparently.

  On 11/3/2014 at 5:54 PM, jules said:

awesome. thanks fellas.

 

I see project now has a newer debut carbon with the speedbox built in. is all that a bunch of fine tuning that I won't really need out of the box?

http://turntablelab.com/pages/the-difference-between-pro-ject-debut-carbon-debut-and-carbon-dc-turntables

For 50$ difference, get the one with the speed box built in, there's an improvement in fidelity too.