flow coma remix technique

Anyone know how the slow down effects in the flow coma remix are achieved? They sound pretty natural like he's scratching on a turntable but I'm pretty sure it must be some kind of plug in, right?

i dunno if anyone could say exactly how he actually did it, but people could offer ideas on how it could be done. its possible he actually recorded it to tape and sampled the tape slowing to a stop or scratching vinyl as you said, and just did like dozens of takes of doing that and meticulously sampled and arranged those. on the other hand it couldve just been done in a daw... who knows

Or just the 'vinyl break' effect on kaoss pad :D

was there a such thing as a kaoss pad back then?

My guesses:

- Sampler with pitch envelopes

- DAW/wave editor

and what samplers have pitch envelopes? Akai MPC?

  On 12/13/2014 at 3:27 AM, MisterE said:

was there a such thing as a kaoss pad back then?

They've been around since 1999 or so.. but I was mostly suggesting that the kp effect is a good approximation rather than what he actually used, heh

  On 12/13/2014 at 4:19 AM, ceiling said:

and what samplers have pitch envelopes? Akai MPC?

A bunch of em. Although I'm not sure, the TX16W mentioned in syrobonkers is likely to have them, since one of the DXes had them. Plus he might've been using the custom Typhoon OS and I would guess that that would have them. The MPC1000, at least with JJOS, has them so the MPC2k he was using for a little while might've too.

 

Even the sampler it didn't have them, pitch bend could still be used for this but it doesn't sound it was done that way to me.

 

I'm well aware that this is all completely speculation, by the way.

tape stop. ie recording the track to tape, then re recording from that tape and manually stopping/slowing it on occasions with your hand to produce the desired effect.

Edited December 13, 2014 by BCM

  On 12/13/2014 at 3:25 PM, BCM said:

tape stop. ie recording the track to tape, then re recording from that tape and manually stopping/slowing it on occasions with your hand to produce the desired effect.

 

This.

  On 12/13/2014 at 4:19 AM, ceiling said:

and what samplers have pitch envelopes? Akai MPC?

 

I can't speak about envelopes, but most samplers allow you to use an lfo to modulate the pitch. This type of effect, if done with a sampler, could also be achieved by setting the pitchbend wheel to its maximum range and automating or recording your own movements until you're satisfied. The effect used in Flow Coma sounds sounds a bit out of the pitch range of most samplers, though. I don't think too many of them allow you to set the pitchbend range further than one or two octaves.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Oscar

It sounded like about 2 octaves to me but I wasn't listening super closely.

 

I thought it sounded a little too clean to be tape. I'm not sure if he had loaded up on Nagras at the point he made this but I believe if you attempted to do this by grabbing a flange on a standard consumer grade cassette, you'd get some noticeable flutter, which I didn't hear.

 

On the sampler tip, portamento is another possibility. But the only sampler I've used that had this (properly implemented, anyway) was the Yamaha A5000, which iirc came out in 1999.

Edited December 13, 2014 by sweepstakes

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

It sounded like about 2 octaves to me but I wasn't listening super closely.

 

Certainly could be. I didn't listen very closely either. The Akai S900 maximum pb range is 12 notes, 24 notes for the 3000 series.

 

A5000 is a bad mother fucker. I was going to buy one a few weeks ago but then I found out the output board will cost me somewhere around 500$, which could net me two or three of those samplers.

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:23 PM, Oscar said:

 

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

It sounded like about 2 octaves to me but I wasn't listening super closely.

 

Certainly could be. I didn't listen very closely either. The Akai S900 maximum pb range is 12 notes, 24 notes for the 3000 series.

 

A5000 is a bad mother fucker. I was going to buy one a few weeks ago but then I found out the output board will cost me somewhere around 500$, which could net me two or three of those samplers.

 

I never had the output board and I didn't really feel a need for it as I roll with main stereo out 99% of the time. It absolutely is a bad mother fucker and it is also a frustrating mother fucker. It can do some absolutely insane things but it's hampered by a horribly thought out interface based heavily on 4 very clicky encoders that will leave your fingers with that post-mowing buzz. But if the prices are still near what they were when I got mine (~$250) it's still worth it for a trick or two - even just as an FX processor it's lovely.

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:29 PM, sweepstakes said:

 

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:23 PM, Oscar said:

 

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

It sounded like about 2 octaves to me but I wasn't listening super closely.

 

Certainly could be. I didn't listen very closely either. The Akai S900 maximum pb range is 12 notes, 24 notes for the 3000 series.

 

A5000 is a bad mother fucker. I was going to buy one a few weeks ago but then I found out the output board will cost me somewhere around 500$, which could net me two or three of those samplers.

 

I never had the output board and I didn't really feel a need for it as I roll with main stereo out 99% of the time. It absolutely is a bad mother fucker and it is also a frustrating mother fucker. It can do some absolutely insane things but it's hampered by a horribly thought out interface based heavily on 4 very clicky encoders that will leave your fingers with that post-mowing buzz. But if the prices are still near what they were when I got mine (~$250) it's still worth it for a trick or two - even just as an FX processor it's lovely.

 

 

The effects processing was one the main reasons I wanted to pick it up, but I'd still need those outputs since most of my stuff relies on lots of samples that will still need some external processing. The interface definitely looks like a bitch to use, and I know those encoders are known to go bad. That said, you're making me want to go ahead and get one anyway, haha.

Oh yeah, I was pissed about the interface at the time because I tried to use it as my main sampler. I wouldn't recommend it for that. I had a way better workflow with the S550. But for what it can do it's a beast. Yeah, I'd still give it a shot even without the extra outs. You seriously might find that you don't need them. I seem to remember it having 4 outs standard and that was plenty. You can always hard-pan if you really need 4 discrete outs.

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

It sounded like about 2 octaves to me but I wasn't listening super closely.

 

I thought it sounded a little too clean to be tape. I'm not sure if he had loaded up on Nagras at the point he made this but I believe if you attempted to do this by grabbing a flange on a standard consumer grade cassette, you'd get some noticeable flutter, which I didn't hear.

it is a tape stop effect. it is obviously not done with consumer grade equipment.

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:59 PM, BCM said:

 

  On 12/13/2014 at 5:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

It sounded like about 2 octaves to me but I wasn't listening super closely.

 

I thought it sounded a little too clean to be tape. I'm not sure if he had loaded up on Nagras at the point he made this but I believe if you attempted to do this by grabbing a flange on a standard consumer grade cassette, you'd get some noticeable flutter, which I didn't hear.

it is a tape stop effect. it is obviously not done with consumer grade equipment.

 

You sound very sure of this :) The reason I mention consumer grade cassette is that RDJ has often talked about his use of it, but I don't remember him talking about using R2R until Analord.

 

BTW - by "consumer grade" I'm talking about the cassette format, not talking about Nakamichi vs. Tascam vs. generic boombox tape player, etc.

Edited December 13, 2014 by sweepstakes

  On 12/12/2014 at 8:33 PM, ceiling said:

Anyone know how the slow down effects in the flow coma remix are achieved? They sound pretty natural like he's scratching on a turntable but I'm pretty sure it must be some kind of plug in, right?

That's the sound of audio being pitched/slowed down.

Псевдо-растяжение звука во времени!

It's pretty easy to do such things in trackers too. Ex, Fx, Exx, Fxx, etc in Impulse Tracker, for instance. Gxx is a nice one if you're sliding into a particular note, which you wouldn't be with a drum break (unless you were segueing into a different tempo, which would be pretty neat).

  On 12/15/2014 at 4:23 PM, ZoeB said:

It's pretty easy to do such things in trackers too. Ex, Fx, Exx, Fxx, etc in Impulse Tracker, for instance. Gxx is a nice one if you're sliding into a particular note, which you wouldn't be with a drum break (unless you were segueing into a different tempo, which would be pretty neat).

Yeah, good call, and I seem to remember something in syrobonkers about trackers though it could be my imagination. He was an Amiga user, too, right? Or maybe it was Atari. Can't remember which one had Octamed.

  On 12/16/2014 at 3:39 AM, sweepstakes said:

 

  On 12/15/2014 at 4:23 PM, ZoeB said:

It's pretty easy to do such things in trackers too. Ex, Fx, Exx, Fxx, etc in Impulse Tracker, for instance. Gxx is a nice one if you're sliding into a particular note, which you wouldn't be with a drum break (unless you were segueing into a different tempo, which would be pretty neat).

Yeah, good call, and I seem to remember something in syrobonkers about trackers though it could be my imagination. He was an Amiga user, too, right? Or maybe it was Atari. Can't remember which one had Octamed.

 

 

OctaMED on the Amiga. Cubase on the Atari.

The Atari ST has built-in MIDI, so it has the early versions of Cubase and (Notator) Logic on it. James uses an ST, or at least did in the 90s. The Amiga has the Paula chip in it, so it it has the early tracking software on it. Then the sequencers got ported across to Windows and Mac OS, and the tracking software got cloned and extended in DOS. Basically, the Amiga sounds better on its own, due to having four 8-bit DACs (or at least, that's how the software treats it, I believe), whereas the Atari ST using MIDI out can control external hardware that sounds far better. So the Amiga is what the thriving European demoscene embraced with open arms, while the Atari ST was used to make a lot of pop music at the time.

 

I mentioned trackers not because he likely used one in the 90s, but because various "IDM" artists seem to have used Renoise. Although whether something so far removed from a Fairlight Page R clone can still be called a tracker, given that it uses plug-ins, is a philosophical issue... :)