Chromatic samplers (HARDWARE)

Why are all of the cheap/compact samplers on the market geared towards beat production? The only one that seems to be able to map a sample across the keyboard is the Korg Microsampler, but even that seems to be pretty limited.

I'm not looking for anything elaborate, just something where I can import a sample, set loop points and use pitch bend/modulation so I can essentially play back samples tracker style. Does something like this exist in a small box or will I need to go oldskool with an old Akai sampler or such (kinda defeats the purpose really, might as well just use software)?

edit: I already use Renoise for sample based music and it does it better (for my tastes) than other software. I'm looking for a compact hardware sampler to use in live sets.

It doesn't seem like it, but it'd be nice! I was considering getting one of those to replace my ES-1..

  On 2/16/2015 at 1:37 AM, modey said:

Why are all of the cheap/compact samplers on the market geared towards beat production? The only one that seems to be able to map a sample across the keyboard is the Korg Microsampler, but even that seems to be pretty limited.

 

I'm not looking for anything elaborate, just something where I can import a sample, set loop points and use pitch bend/modulation so I can essentially play back samples tracker style. Does something like this exist in a small box or will I need to go oldskool with an old Akai sampler or such (kinda defeats the purpose really, might as well just use software)?

The MicroSampler is limited? In what way?

(literally every piece of gear is limited, innit)

What akai's do this? MPC1000? MPC2000? keen to get an older akai

  On 2/16/2015 at 3:30 AM, Chris Toffer said:

What akai's do this? MPC1000? MPC2000? keen to get an older akai

I think all the Akai's have a setting where you can chromatically assign a sample to the pads. I think in theory you can do keyboard sampler stuff on an MPC (at least using the sequencer), but it's just a slower process.

  On 2/16/2015 at 3:29 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 2/16/2015 at 1:37 AM, modey said:

Why are all of the cheap/compact samplers on the market geared towards beat production? The only one that seems to be able to map a sample across the keyboard is the Korg Microsampler, but even that seems to be pretty limited.

 

I'm not looking for anything elaborate, just something where I can import a sample, set loop points and use pitch bend/modulation so I can essentially play back samples tracker style. Does something like this exist in a small box or will I need to go oldskool with an old Akai sampler or such (kinda defeats the purpose really, might as well just use software)?

 

The MicroSampler is limited? In what way?

 

(literally every piece of gear is limited, innit)

 

I *think* it doesn't work with pitchbend/modulation. I'll look into it though. Problem is, they seem to be discontinued so I'll have to find one on ebay or something.

Also, I don't need the keyboard, since I'd be controlling it from either a sequencer or midi-pickup on guitar.

Something little like the SU10 would be great; surely it's possible? Perhaps that arduino-esque thing someone posted a few weeks back would be a better bet..

edit: actually yeah maybe the axoloti is a good way to go, once it's out. There's no need for it to be capable of live sampling, just loading of samples onto an SD card or something. I basically want to get some Zoolook-esque stuff going with samples in my tracks—which I do all the time in Renoise, but 'live' modes in Renoise don't suit my workflow.

  On 2/16/2015 at 3:57 AM, modey said:

 

  On 2/16/2015 at 3:29 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 2/16/2015 at 1:37 AM, modey said:

Why are all of the cheap/compact samplers on the market geared towards beat production? The only one that seems to be able to map a sample across the keyboard is the Korg Microsampler, but even that seems to be pretty limited.

 

I'm not looking for anything elaborate, just something where I can import a sample, set loop points and use pitch bend/modulation so I can essentially play back samples tracker style. Does something like this exist in a small box or will I need to go oldskool with an old Akai sampler or such (kinda defeats the purpose really, might as well just use software)?

 

The MicroSampler is limited? In what way?

 

(literally every piece of gear is limited, innit)

 

I *think* it doesn't work with pitchbend/modulation. I'll look into it though. Problem is, they seem to be discontinued so I'll have to find one on ebay or something.

Also, I don't need the keyboard, since I'd be controlling it from either a sequencer or midi-pickup on guitar.

 

Something little like the SU10 would be great; surely it's possible? Perhaps that arduino-esque thing someone posted a few weeks back would be a better bet..

 

edit: actually yeah maybe the axoloti is a good way to go, once it's out. There's no need for it to be capable of live sampling, just loading of samples onto an SD card or something. I basically want to get some Zoolook-esque stuff going with samples in my tracks—which I do all the time in Renoise, but 'live' modes in Renoise don't suit my workflow.

 

I own a MicroSampler and it does pitchbend/timestretch...in fact, it is probably the single most convenient sampler of all time in this regard as you can simply press a button ('keyboard mode') to assign a sample chromatically to all the keys. Keyboard samplers aren't really my bread and butter but this is really as good as it gets.

Oh, very cool. Thanks for the info!

edit: what's the pitching like? Does it have any cool aliasing artifacts or does it interpolate?

  On 2/16/2015 at 4:45 AM, modey said:

Oh, very cool. Thanks for the info!

 

 

edit: what's the pitching like? Does it have any cool aliasing artifacts or does it interpolate?

By default it does turntable-style pitch/speed (like an SK-1...or a turntable lol). But you can stretch the time and pitch independently (Sadly it's been a while so I can't remember how dirty it gets when you do that). On top of all that it's also got a time-stretch fx, which gets that sort of artificial pitch-bend sound. So shit'll hook your ass up any way you fancy, pitchbend/timestretch-wise.

It's also got different bitrates and samplerates that are nasty (not to mention the bitcrusher fx).

It really is like a modern, hi-fi SK-1 on acid.

P.S. the MicroSampler only tanked because the marketing was an embarrassing failure...

...with a really strange emphasis put on beatboxing(?!?)

The thing, as amazing as it is, has so much more potential firmware-wise

but since it tanked they abandoned support

(aside from, like, beatbox sample packs on their website)

  On 2/16/2015 at 3:30 AM, Chris Toffer said:

What akai's do this? MPC1000? MPC2000? keen to get an older akai

Basically everything from the 900 and up will allow you to map your sounds however you please, loop (i doubt it gets more advanced than a forward loop in the 900s), pitch bend, etc. Obviously the newer the hardware is the more options you'll probably get. The 950 has two envelopes. And an lfo that I think is only assignable to the pitch. There's a low pass analog filter that is assignable to the the mod wheel or pitch wheel, as well.

Why don't you just use ableton's Sampler/Simpler?

Because ableton is way more functionality than I'll need (and is too expensive considering I have other licensed DAWs), especially with a monomachine on the way (any day now :P).

I mean, I can probably do it with reaper or renoise but I want to move away from using laptops in my live setup!

Nah it's not for me. I tried it long ago but didn't get along with the interface tbh. I'm a tracker kid! Max4live is tempting but far too expensive for something that I'll only have a passing interest in. Plus, there are guys like little scale who are already fuckin' nailing M4L in the australian scene, haha!

OP-1

  On 2/16/2015 at 1:37 AM, modey said:

Why are all of the cheap/compact samplers on the market geared towards beat production? The only one that seems to be able to map a sample across the keyboard is the Korg Microsampler, but even that seems to be pretty limited.

 

I'm not looking for anything elaborate, just something where I can import a sample, set loop points and use pitch bend/modulation so I can essentially play back samples tracker style. Does something like this exist in a small box or will I need to go oldskool with an old Akai sampler or such (kinda defeats the purpose really, might as well just use software)?

ableton's sampler is wicked, it even has an emu style z-filter!

  On 2/16/2015 at 1:37 AM, modey said:

cheap

  On 2/16/2015 at 11:41 AM, Grain Bastard said:

OP-1

  On 2/16/2015 at 4:51 PM, chim said:

 

ableton's sampler is wicked, it even has an emu style z-filter!

 

  On 2/16/2015 at 1:37 AM, modey said:

edit: I already use Renoise for sample based music and it does it better (for my tastes) than other software. I'm looking for a compact hardware sampler to use in live sets.

  On 2/16/2015 at 4:45 AM, modey said:

Oh, very cool. Thanks for the info!

 

 

edit: what's the pitching like? Does it have any cool aliasing artifacts or does it interpolate?

if very basic time stretching artifacts are cool to you then yeah it has them, you can really only get away with maybe 3-4 notes above the pitch before it starts to sound pretty crap imo, going lower with the pitch shifter mode works much better. I always just end up using classic sk1 style pitching across the notes, short of a software sampler like Kontakt or a roland Vsynth I'm not fond of almost all other samplers (Even new ones) use low quality (25+ year old algorithm) pitch shifting to 'play' a sample chromatically.

for actual genuine (good and not 1994 ragga jungle quality) pitch shifting (while maintaining the time) sampling performance this is probably the cheapest and best sounding thing you can get : http://www.rolandus.com/products/vp-9000/

the Vp9000 was a pre ableton pre-Vsynth way to stretch audio without allegedly noticing it

edit: one on ebay now for $299 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-VP-9000-VariPhrase-Processor-Sampler-FX-with-Manuals-MINT-LOOK-/381155309776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58bea078d0

the vp9000 believe it or not still has better stretching/pitch shifting algorithms than almost all software samplers in 2014, kind of a shame because the technology is probably not that advanced, just nobody needs a high bar i guess after Live kind of set it "sounds good enough!"

this video is terrible/hilarious but the example at 6:15 is why this thing is actually worth having if this type of sampling is important to you

edit2: one major catch with the Vp9000 /Vsynth workflow Vs a korg microsampler or an MPC. You have to go through one extra step to process the sound for Roland's 'elastic audio algorithm'. The software inside has to analyze the file, and you have several options of how you want to analyze it. You even have an option to use any sound almost like a vocoder (think Kontakt's tone mode). In other words you cant record a sound on the fly and immediatly start playing it, if you could both of these machines would be way more awesome. The way they are now they are sort of just amazing proof of concept technology demonstrations that lack immediacy

edit3: i remember you mentioning interest in the Octatrack, keep in mind that the Octatrack just like the Korg Microsampler has very old school outdated time stretching/pitch shifting algorithms as well.

no no, I meant resampling artifacts, like in old trackers when the interpolation is turned off. I definitely am a fan of that 'low quality pitch shifting' you mention

as I mentioned, I want something pretty close to what I assume is fairlight sampling that is all over Jean Michel Jarre's Zoolook album, it just seems a bit ridiculous that modern samplers don't have this rather simple feature.. I mean, you can adjust the pitch with a parameter knob, why not allow it to be done with a key as well?

from what i understand the effect you're talking about is basically achieved by sampling something, then speeding it up so its say 50% of its original speed, then rendering it and taking that file and bringing it back to it's original speed. It sounds sorta like a bit crushing effect, but to my ears much better. Is that what you're talking about? Skinny Puppy used this effect a lot on Too Dark Park and Rabies, on vocals samples and other sounds. Am i totally off the mark?

Kinda, but it happens with higher quality samples too, without actually going to the effort of downsampling.

Ok, basically I want protracker style pitch bend/vibrato in a box, complete with lack of interpolation, as follows:

ie. hear how the pitch bends give the lead lines a kinda 'glassy' sound, that's a big part of the aesthetic imo. Electribe ES-1 comes close but filters it a little, and also can't be played on a keyboard unless you map one sample chromatically across all 9 sample slots, and even then it doesn't respond to pitch bend and you only get 9 notes

edit: I'm pretty much gonna admit defeat here I think, and maybe look into that axoloti thing, perhaps that way I can program something in a modular environment..

.. or maybe get renoise running on linux on a netbook/π or something, hopefully with low enough latency to play using guitar/sequence with monomachine

yea the effect you're after is simply scanning a sample buffer without interpolating between sample points (just rounding to the closest index). If the scan happens a rate which does not align with the original sample time, there will be some "jaggies" introduced in the signal which result these metallic harmonics.

if you scan the sample buffer at half the original speed, each sample point is simply read twice.. the effect is stronger at odd ratios, e.g. sample[n] might be read 3 times, sample[n+1] might be read 2 times, the next sample 3 times again.... very simple effect, the resulting harmonics are nice :)

note that this is not the same as bit-reducing.

Bit reduce will alter amplitude, this effect is strictly time based.

I think there's some hybrid hardware synths exploiting this? e.g. wavetable oscillators in ESQ1, MI Shruthi....