Ableton - using an external mixer as midi controller and effects unit

Hi All :) Happy Tuesdays.

I have an American Audio 14MXR 4 channel mixer. I can get it synchronised with Ableton as a midi controller (the mixer has a USB connection) and currently have the master output flowing to the inputs 3&4 on the back of my focusrite interface so I can record from vinyl.

This also means for instance I can record modulation via the low pass/high pass filter, eq etc.

What I want to do is send the master output from my ableton project back into the mixer so I can live modulate the EQ, filter, faders, gain and then re-record this output back into my interface.

This is perhaps a dumb question but how do I do that??

It kinda of depends how many outputs you have available on your soundcard.

Soundcard Output 3 & 4 ---> Mixer Channel 1 & 2

Mixer Master Output ---> Soundcard input 3 & 4

I mean, I assume you're not spinning vinyl during all this? Just use the same signal path from the mixer back to Ableton. Also you'll need to send the soundcard output 1 & 2 to your speakers in order to hear all this. Set your Ableton master channel to output 3 & 4. Then the audio channel in Ableton that is receiving the mixer output, set the output of that channel direct to Soundcard 1& 2, i.e. don't send it to the master (cause that's 3 & 4).

If you don't have the spare outputs on your soundcard, just send the soundcard output 1 & 2 to the mixer and you can just rig up a headphone mix from the mixer in order to monitor what you're actually doing.

I think. I've just woken up.

Hey. Thanks a lot. I have the extra outputs on my soundcard but this doesn't seem to be working.

I'm not seeing any audio come into the mixer and thus I can't manipulate it via the mixer controls to then re-sample.

Excluding my monitors which are always connected to outputs 1 and 2 on the soundcard, I still have another 2 outputs (3&4)

Soundcard - Mixer connection

Ableton Set Up

What am I doing wrong?

First off, Just check you have line input selected on the mixer channel; assuming there is that option, I can't actually see it on the channel strip itself, is that a switch on the back I can see?

Also, I have an M-Audio Fast Track Ultra and I need to use the power supply in order to get access to channels 3-6, USB only powers 1 & 2, that might also be a problem. You'll need to completely restart in order for it to trigger.

Is that clip in Ableton what you want to manipulate? In which case sorry, you need to send that to your master channel. Create another audio track with the input of 3/4 and the output of 1/2 for hearing and recording your mixer manipulations.

Hey! Thanks it's receiving audio now.

I played around with the switches at the back and front of the unit - it seems to work when at the back the channel switch for input 1 is on 'line' and on the front side of the mixer 'analog' rather than 'usb' is selected.

My problem now is that the original file and the resample are playing/recording at the same time when I only want to hear the output coming back from the mixer. So it's doubling up and feeding back. I expect feedback is to be expected but I can't actually monitor the effect of my modulations back through the speakers as they are being masked by the 'dry' signal. If I tweak the eqs or gain too much it creates crazy feedback noise too - which at times sounds cool but yeah not really wanted.

I can listen directly from the mixer by plugging in headphones which helps me hear what I'm doing whilst the original plays through my monitors or just muted but surely I should be able to only listen back to the output from the mixer through my monitors, minus the original audio file playing back.

When I solo the new audio track for resampling, to try and only listen to that it stops receiving audio. The same happens when I deactivate/mute the track with the original audio track playing. I can record to the new track and listen back after the fact but that doesn't really lend itself to live edits etc.

Set up like this right now in Abelton

This is what the focusrite set up looks like but I'm unsure if this is what's the problem

You've changed your master channel from 3/4 in the previous post, back to 1/2. Thus the feedback loop.

Track 1:

Audio from: no input

Audio to: Master

Track 2:

Audio from Ext. In 3/4

Audio to: Ext. Out 1/2

Master:

Audio to: Ext Out 3/4

  On 4/7/2015 at 3:52 PM, Polytrix said:

I played around with the switches at the back and front of the unit - it seems to work when at the back the channel switch for input 1 is on 'line' and on the front side of the mixer 'analog' rather than 'usb' is selected.

Hang on, sorry - just starting to pay attention now. This mixer can receive 4 in 4 out via USB. So probably easier to utilize that.

In Ableton use the mixer as the default output device, and the focusrite as the default input device. Set the mixer itself to Mixer Mode (Page 10 instruction manual).

Master output of Ableton can go straight out to the mixer via USB. Use the main outputs on the mixer to go to your speakers, and use the booth monitor to send the fucked-with sound back to the focusrite which you can then record inside Ableton on a separate track. Just be sure to remove that channel's output so it doesn't get routed back out to the mixer and you get another feedback loop.

EDIT:

Both this and the post above should work. Not sure which will sound better, depends on the quality of DAC inside the mixer compared to the focusrite.

Hey, so with using the focusrite as the default in/out device I can't seem to be able to get audio flowing into the mixer and back again without the master output in Ableton being set to 1/2.

Here's a picture as per your advice. No audio is coming out of my speakers and there's no audio signal flowing into the mixer channel.

Yes, the mixer can also act as an audio interface, so yes, that is also an option.

The problem is that I can't follow your advice regarding setting the focusrite as the default input device and the mixer as the default output device...I can only select one!

Do you mean via the Ableton audio preferences menu? Like this? ADJ ASIO is the mixer (American Audio DJ Asio driver)

Or do you mean via the midi ports selection menu? Like changing stuff around here?

I can see that making the mixer the primary interface makes sense but I don't know how to re-record using it and the focusrite at the same time.

Thanks so much for helping. I get really confused by all this stuff. I just want to be able to use the mixer for all its worth in conjunction with ableton.

Oh fuck that's Traktor where you can select different I/O devices. My mistake. Is that a PC setup? On a mac it's possible to create an aggregate device using two interfaces but I've no clue how to on a PC.

I also have no idea why your focusrite isn't outputting on 3/4. Are you sure? Plug your speakers into output 3/4 and run your Ableton Master out to 3/4. First off, you need to verify if there's actually anything coming out. If not, there's something either wrong in Ableton, or the Focusrite setting. If there is sound, then you know it's a problem on the mixer. At which point I'd probably read the manual properly. It looks like, as you worked out, that it should be set to analog for starters. At this point I'd also connect your speakers to the main output of the mixer to again verify the signal is being received, and double check what inputs you should be using (though the manual suggests all 4 are line level ready). Then once you have signal into your mixer, then run a signal from the monitor booth output back into your focusrite, and you should be good to go.

This is a good lesson with problem solving and always checking your signal chain. Always do things step by step, try introduce one thing at a time if you're having to route a lot, and verify a signal is both being received AND being output, that way you can work out exactly at which point it's breaking down. Just because you don't hear something in Item B, doesn't mean it's a fault on Item B, it could also be a fault with the output of Item A, and it's important to identify which.

P.S. Sorry I'm not being a lot of help.

Hey, yeah, it's a PC setup. Windows 7. I'll try all your suggestions a bit later.

The last picture I sent of the Ableton setup was indeed outputting to 3/4 (I can see it on the mixer coming through with green signal) but I wasn't getting sound coming out of my speakers as they are connected to output1/2. I'll switch the speakers to 3/4 as you said and try again.

I also think I may need to change the output device on the focusrite scarlett mix control app which also has an impact on routing. Never really know exactly how to effectively use that software other than simple stuff. There's a whole section for speaker outputs.

The reality of all of this of course is that I can basically just use the autofilter and eq8 on ableton as insert effects but I like the idea of tactile control and obviously the mixer has different eqs/filters than ableton. It has a bandwidth control on the filter too that could be interesting

The opposite, you are fantastic help! I'm very appreciative Added you on Soundcloud