What Cheap Synths Will Be Future Classics?

so everyone knows the story of the synth market

in the early 90's you could get an SH-101 for $100 or so

or a 303

or a jupiter-4 (apparently folks thought it was a preset organ)

or hell, anything

here are some depressing graphs showing synth prices over time

etc etc as with every classic synth ever

So now, the question is:

What currently cheap synths will be beloved classics in the future?

for instance,

is the Akai Timbre Wolf the 303 of 2030?

it's probably a stretch,

but the 303 was a failure when it came out

it was essentially a Dr Rhythm that played bass instead of drums

I had no clue what the Akai Timbre Wolf was, so I looked it up.

Yikes. Any good videos on YT without over half dislikes?

  On 7/20/2015 at 1:48 AM, Brisbot said:

I had no clue what the Akai Timbre Wolf was, so I looked it up.

 

Yikes. Any good videos on YT without over half dislikes? It reminds me of Phonatacid.

apparently they fixed the tuning problems

but other than that, what you see is what you get

btw i wasn't saying i like the Timbre Wolf

au contraire

it's a goofy attempt by Akai to cash in on the current analog madness

however

i could see some talented musicians making some great stuff with that thing

because although it is a very bad, stupid synth

it probably does certain things that other synths can't do as well

but i've never played it so who knows

anyway, you missed my point

i wasn't necessarily saying the Timbre Wolf was gonna be a future classic

I was just saying that

watching demos of the Timbre Wolf

got me thinking about how the 303 was received when it came out

Yeah I'm lazy. Heh.

neway.

You're right, you can make good music with anything. Though the hallmark of a good synth is one that'll do what you want quickly. Looks like you have to fight the timbre wolf.

To be fair, it's not that I missed your point. It's just that I didn't address it because the Wolf Timbre Akai was occupying my thoughts when I wrote the above most many many nanoseconds ago. I don't really have an opinion on the topic, I was just curious about the Akai wolf timber.

boomstars are apparently good

some of the modules, makenoise QMMG because the parts are matched and a pita to make

good clones using old parts

macbeth stuff

I don't imagine a similar progression of price will happen again for any synths. Mostly because these days aspiring electronic musicians without much money can just use freeware/pirate a bunch of softsynths/DAWs to get started, so there wouldn't be as much of a resurgence of popularity of current-gen hardware (maybe?). And current machines like the Volca range are too much of a throwback to their 80s counterparts to be worth much down the line.

Maybe devices like the first-gen Electribes? The ES-1 has a pretty unique sound..

ES1 any good then?

  On 7/20/2015 at 1:45 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if I'm reading this correctly, i could've gotten an MS 20 for 50-100 dollars in 1990. Fucking insane. Of course, just a few people knew about this, bought them, showed their friends and everyone hopped on the bandwagon.

I can imagine the microkorg becoming somewhat of a nostalgic synth due to the amount of people who have used it.

  On 7/20/2015 at 2:37 AM, lala said:

ES1 any good then?

yep, I'll never sell mine

there's not really many synths that are "classic" worthy these days.. a lot of it's been done before. they're just different types of subtractive, FM, etc. with all the bells and whistles and matrixes and effects and whatever.. the synths are classic now are classic because at the time when they appeared on the scene, their technology was game changing for musicians.

my guess is there will be a big market for rare modules like the eurorack stuff and things.. people might seek that stuff in the future.

that's my theory anyway.. i'm too high for this

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:16 AM, maitake said:

there's not really many synths that are "classic" worthy these days.. a lot of it's been done before. they're just different types of subtractive, FM, etc. with all the bells and whistles and matrixes and effects and whatever.. the synths are classic now are classic because at the time when they appeared on the scene, their technology was game changing for musicians.

yeah I think this is what I was trying to say; you said it better than I did!

roland rack synths from the 80s are still great scores, digital and analogs.

  On 7/20/2015 at 2:26 AM, modey said:

I don't imagine a similar progression of price will happen again for any synths. Mostly because these days aspiring electronic musicians without much money can just use freeware/pirate a bunch of softsynths/DAWs to get started, so there wouldn't be as much of a resurgence of popularity of current-gen hardware (maybe?).

i strongly doubt this premise, only because as an avid soft synth user myself 90% of the time i still use Yamaha FM hardware and ill often use a good digital synth over a plugin. Fm7 and Zebra are great but they don't hold a candle to a TG77 or an FS1R imo.

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:23 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

roland rack synths from the 80s are still great scores, digital and analogs.

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 2:26 AM, modey said:

I don't imagine a similar progression of price will happen again for any synths. Mostly because these days aspiring electronic musicians without much money can just use freeware/pirate a bunch of softsynths/DAWs to get started, so there wouldn't be as much of a resurgence of popularity of current-gen hardware (maybe?).

i strongly doubt this premise, only because as an avid soft synth user myself 90% of the time i still use Yamaha FM hardware and ill often use a good digital synth over a plugin. Fm7 and Zebra are great but they don't hold a candle to a TG77 or an FS1R imo.

yeah, but while hardware fetishism is all over the place on this forum, what do you think the majority of people are using these days? computer music has taken control..

people are gobbling up controllers all over the place now..

and what makes those hardware synths you listened so superior to softsynths? i totally understand the feel and touch aspect, there's no debate there. but sound wise? cmon.. i'm skeptical that the sound quality is really all that much different and the depth that some plugins are just wildly complex soundmakers.

The proof is in the music making, the hard synths aren't better, it's more about what you are used to, eventually ppl won't give a shit about this old man retro, relive your youth now you can afford it crap. And yeah input controllers for softsynths are all you really need and maybe a nicely weighted keyboard and something touchscreen for some playplay.

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:30 AM, maitake said:

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:23 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

roland rack synths from the 80s are still great scores, digital and analogs.

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 2:26 AM, modey said:

I don't imagine a similar progression of price will happen again for any synths. Mostly because these days aspiring electronic musicians without much money can just use freeware/pirate a bunch of softsynths/DAWs to get started, so there wouldn't be as much of a resurgence of popularity of current-gen hardware (maybe?).

i strongly doubt this premise, only because as an avid soft synth user myself 90% of the time i still use Yamaha FM hardware and ill often use a good digital synth over a plugin. Fm7 and Zebra are great but they don't hold a candle to a TG77 or an FS1R imo.

 

yeah, but while hardware fetishism is all over the place on this forum, what do you think the majority of people are using these days? computer music has taken control..

people are gobbling up controllers all over the place now..

We're not talking about the "majority of people"...we're talking about the sorts of people that buy synths.

It takes 3 minutes to pirate FL or Live or whatever, yet magically synth prices haven't plummeted. This is not a surprise.

Hardware synths are awesome, and people want them. There is literally no software that ever could come out that would make me dump my hardware rig.

there will always be a market for analogue though.. forgot to mention that. i only raised question regarding digital hardware vs softsynths.

i don't think the difference in huuuuge, and yeah delet it's really what you make of it. but analogue does have characteristics not easily replicated digitally.

however, plugins like u-he makes would make even the best ears question that.. ;)

so maybe analogue hardware will still be hot products in the future? DSI? Korg?

Maybe they'll dream up some real jawdroppers soon.

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:44 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:30 AM, maitake said:

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:23 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

roland rack synths from the 80s are still great scores, digital and analogs.

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 2:26 AM, modey said:

I don't imagine a similar progression of price will happen again for any synths. Mostly because these days aspiring electronic musicians without much money can just use freeware/pirate a bunch of softsynths/DAWs to get started, so there wouldn't be as much of a resurgence of popularity of current-gen hardware (maybe?).

i strongly doubt this premise, only because as an avid soft synth user myself 90% of the time i still use Yamaha FM hardware and ill often use a good digital synth over a plugin. Fm7 and Zebra are great but they don't hold a candle to a TG77 or an FS1R imo.

 

yeah, but while hardware fetishism is all over the place on this forum, what do you think the majority of people are using these days? computer music has taken control..

people are gobbling up controllers all over the place now..

 

We're not talking about the "majority of people"...we're talking about the sorts of people that buy synths.

 

It takes 3 minutes to pirate FL or Live or whatever, yet magically synth prices haven't plummeted. This is not a surprise.

Hardware synths are awesome, and people want them. There is literally no software that ever could come out that would make me dump my hardware rig.

 

he was quoting rob that was saying one was better than the other dude. The sane people needed to respond to the hoarder class. heeh.

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:44 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:30 AM, maitake said:

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 3:23 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

roland rack synths from the 80s are still great scores, digital and analogs.

 

  On 7/20/2015 at 2:26 AM, modey said:

I don't imagine a similar progression of price will happen again for any synths. Mostly because these days aspiring electronic musicians without much money can just use freeware/pirate a bunch of softsynths/DAWs to get started, so there wouldn't be as much of a resurgence of popularity of current-gen hardware (maybe?).

i strongly doubt this premise, only because as an avid soft synth user myself 90% of the time i still use Yamaha FM hardware and ill often use a good digital synth over a plugin. Fm7 and Zebra are great but they don't hold a candle to a TG77 or an FS1R imo.

 

yeah, but while hardware fetishism is all over the place on this forum, what do you think the majority of people are using these days? computer music has taken control..

people are gobbling up controllers all over the place now..

 

We're not talking about the "majority of people"...we're talking about the sorts of people that buy synths.

 

It takes 3 minutes to pirate FL or Live or whatever, yet magically synth prices haven't plummeted. This is not a surprise.

Hardware synths are awesome, and people want them. There is literally no software that ever could come out that would make me dump my hardware rig.

 

i understand that, and I agree.. I was just following modey's suggestion that the rise of computer music may prevent any particular hardware synth from becoming a classic in our future.

the old synths were cool because at the time there just wasn't anything like that. synthesis was awesome and novel. hardware synths aren't really that novel anymore, even though they're cool and people still want them. i think that's why we're having a hard time coming up with synths that might turn into classics. i mean, shit like the jupiter-8 came out in 1981.. it was gorgeous and made amazing sound. now, roland releases a remake and people go "oh yeah yeah, that's cool" and some people buy them to relive the glory.

upgraded to cheaper

here are my predictions for future classics:

Yamaha Reface CS and DX - Everything but that fucking organ, of course. I always loved the AN1x (whose brain they scooped out and plopped in the CS reface), as it nailed the infamous CS-80 brass sound. And the DX seems like a straight-ahead FM synth, except that it's not completely impossible to program. Aside from a DX100, where else can you find a tiny FM synth?

MicroSampler - For the sorts of folks who appreciate the Ensoniq sampling keyboards, mostly. Very workhorse-y. Tons of amazing effects (all borrowed from the Kaoss Pad). And although legacy software will be a dubious matter in the future, it's got a great librarian/editor program.

Roland System-1 - Even without the plug-outs, this thing's a great little synth. This machine got slept on hard, but folks will see its potential sooner or later.

Korg Volcas - The Volcas were probably the best bang-for-buck analog kit released in the last 15 years. They are simple and they are analog. (The filters step but what's a little stepping between friends, eh?). I also think the Monotribe and some of the Electribes will be 'future classics' as well.

P.S.

regarding the notion that hardware could ever be rendered obsolete by software:

Ever wonder why do Emu SP-1200's cost as much as an 808? It's certainly not because of specs or convenience: it has 10 seconds of sampling time and requires floppy disks. However, the thing simply has a magic sound and workflow. (For instance, some of the output channels on the SP-1200 have different filters, so users will strategically assign kicks, snares, hats and basses to different channels as a mixing technique.) If ever there was proof against the claim that gear should be powerful and convenient, it's the SP-1200.

  On 7/20/2015 at 5:47 AM, LimpyLoo said:

here are my predictions for future classics:

 

Yamaha Reface CS and DX - Everything but that fucking organ, of course. I always loved the AN1x (whose brain they scooped out and plopped in the CS reface), as it nailed the infamous CS-80 brass sound. And the DX seems like a straight-ahead FM synth, except that it's not completely impossible to program. Aside from a DX100, where else can you find a tiny FM synth?

 

 

MicroSampler - For the sorts of folks who appreciate the Ensoniq sampling keyboards, mostly. Very workhorse-y. Tons of amazing effects (all borrowed from the Kaoss Pad). And although legacy software will be a dubious matter in the future, it's got a great librarian/editor program.

 

Roland System-1 - Even without the plug-outs, this thing's a great little synth. This machine got slept on hard, but folks will see its potential sooner or later.

 

Korg Volcas - The Volcas were probably the best bang-for-buck analog kit released in the last 15 years. They are simple and they are analog. (The filters step but what's a little stepping between friends, eh?). I also think the Monotribe and some of the Electribes will be 'future classics' as well.

 

P.S.

regarding the notion that hardware could ever be rendered obsolete by software:

 

Ever wonder why do Emu SP-1200's cost as much as an 808? It's certainly not because of specs or convenience: it has 10 seconds of sampling time and requires floppy disks. However, the thing simply has a magic sound and workflow. (For instance, some of the output channels on the SP-1200 have different filters, so users will strategically assign kicks, snares, hats and basses to different channels as a mixing technique.) If ever there was proof against the claim that gear should be powerful and convenient, it's the SP-1200.

good choices and good point.

i still think the nostalgia will be weaker for gear being produced now. :)

is the OP-1 too expensive to enter this thread?

it's a memorable device.

  On 7/20/2015 at 5:47 AM, LimpyLoo said:

regarding the notion that hardware could ever be rendered obsolete by software:

 

Ever wonder why do Emu SP-1200's cost as much as an 808? It's certainly not because of specs or convenience: it has 10 seconds of sampling time and requires floppy disks. However, the thing simply has a magic sound and workflow. (For instance, some of the output channels on the SP-1200 have different filters, so users will strategically assign kicks, snares, hats and basses to different channels as a mixing technique.) If ever there was proof against the claim that gear should be powerful and convenient, it's the SP-1200.

I didn't say it'd be rendered obsolete by software, I just suggested that certain pieces of gear won't be fetishised as much, since there won't be a story of "I was just starting out without much money so I went to a second hand store and picked up an ms20 for $100" from the next Aphex Twin, instead it'll be like "I wanted to make electronic music so I pirated a copy of Ableton" or "I didn't have much money so I'm glad there was a bunch of freeware to get me started". Late 80s/early 90s electronic musicians were taking advantage of the cheapest way possible to make electronic music, and as a result those pieces of hardware became fetishised (much in the same way that grunge/indie bands took advantage of discarded Jazzmasters/Jaguars and now they're worth more than Strats). I'm not even sure if it's worth trying to explain my point, since I don't seem to be getting it across very well!

A friend/bandmate of mine worked at Akai for about 5 years, during most of the development cycle of the Rhyth Wolf. According to him, the core of the tuning issue is that the warmup time before the oscillators stabilize is about 45 minutes but they never thought to actually mention that there was any warmup time at all in any of the documentation.

45 minutes is too long though, and is a red flag for poor design choices. Even my beat up MG-1 only takes 10-15 minutes to get pretty much stable.

As far as "future classics," the Mutable Instruments anushri is my favorite piece of gear in probably a decade. I use it constantly.

Maybe the Redsound stuff? It was a massive failure, has enough bugs to give it mystique but not so many as to make it useless, doesn't really sound like anything else I've ever used.

BOSS SP series samplers. (sp-202, sp-303, sp-404, etc...). Almost after 15 years it is still one of my favourite pieces of hardware and it was considered a budget device when it came out. To me it's the ultimate texture creator and fx box that you can get under $200, you can use it as an outboard as a rough but tough compressor, it has a bunch of sample banks that can load up to an hour's worth of data on the C and D banks and 70 seconds on the A and B banks, and the sequencer is functional enough to do beatmatching and drum pad recording with no problems. You can make an entire album with nothing except for it... Fatboy Slim popularized it but J Dilla and Madlib have been bringing it back.