Physical Modeling

Figure this is as good a start as any

around 2006 I tried a virtual synth called Modelonia by Nusofting (makers of a venerable Karplus Strong plucked synth called Harptime) and thought it had the sickest brass sounds I've ever heard synthesized, before I heard any Xoxos plugins for that matter. It created a lasting impression on my mind.

 

Modelonia 2 is close to being released and there is a public beta.

http://www.nusofting.liqihsynth.com/modelonia.html

 

for anyone not familiar with physical modeling synths, simply try the plugin, try a bunch of presets, listen to the dynamics and do a doubletake at the filesize of the plugin.

 

 

I used to love all the Pling vst's, the first couple were really quirky and then they got more accurate.

looks interesting, how does it compare to the two most powerful physical modeling softwares right now : Logic's Sculpture & Madrona Labs Kaivo?

Edited August 5, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

  On 8/5/2015 at 1:22 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

looks interesting, how does it compare to the two most powerful physical modeling softwares right now : Logic's Sculpture & Madrona Labs Kaivo?

It's OK sounding, but definitely not in the same league as Kaivo, lets just say I'm perfectly happy to have paid the asking price of the public beta of Modelonia I'm still quite happy using Chromaphhone for all my percussive modelling, but Madrona Labs sure makes some interesting sounding stuff !

Not sure how they compare, as I don't have a mac or Logic, and haven't tried Kaivo yet. Nusofting is a smaller company and I would say the sound would be more 'old school' if I had to guess. But then again, sometimes it's up to the talent of the preset makers.

Kaivo uses about 100 MB of samples I see... wonder if those are mandatory. Also, no telling if the Logic one uses tons of samples or not. I'm a fan of Xoxos, but some of those plugs devour CPU. I'd like to see a monster physical modeling synth from Xoxos that does all of the stuff in his range, handclaps, membranes, strings, insects, geese, loon, Mustaine...

Sculpture is all synth, except for the instrument body convolution.

 

Robbie: do you use any of the AAS plugins? Chromaphone is one of my favorite plugins.

Also speaking of PM, I picked up pianoteq, and damn does that sound and feel good to play.

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:02 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

why did phys mod seem to be the next big thing in the 90's before dying on its arse, doomed to be explored by smaller companies making vsts and whatnot? not enough public interest?

Pretty sure grunge killed it... no mainstream interest in synths after New Wave died out, and the recent EDM phenom isn't exactly clamoring for unusual sounds

get an ircam subscription or whatever they request. all very hazy with them.

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:02 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

why did phys mod seem to be the next big thing in the 90's before dying on its arse, doomed to be explored by smaller companies making vsts and whatnot? not enough public interest?

What constitutes a phys mod synth though? I mean, for example:

Subtractive synth: shaping a raw wave using filters

Additive synth: adding harmonics to a raw wave

FM synth: modulating the frequency of a raw wave

etc..

.. Phys mod: ???

 

I can make a fairly acoustic sounding bassdrum using subtractive synthesis and a bit of reverb, or bells using FM, but would it only be considered phys mod synthesis if I called it that? I think the Ae guys said something similar in the AAA thread.

  On 8/5/2015 at 3:56 AM, Kcinsu said:

Sculpture is all synth, except for the instrument body convolution.

 

Robbie: do you use any of the AAS plugins? Chromaphone is one of my favorite plugins.

Also speaking of PM, I picked up pianoteq, and damn does that sound and feel good to play.

absolutely, been using Tassman for years and haven't used it too heavily but I plan on doing a lot more with Chromaphone. Pianoteq is fucking mindblowing, definitely the 'first' 100% convincing acoustic instrument recreation i've heard, i love how you can hear the damper pedal come up off the strings. Thank you Reid/Wisp for turning me on to it originally.

  On 8/5/2015 at 8:58 AM, modey said:

 

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:02 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

why did phys mod seem to be the next big thing in the 90's before dying on its arse, doomed to be explored by smaller companies making vsts and whatnot? not enough public interest?

What constitutes a phys mod synth though? I mean, for example:

Subtractive synth: shaping a raw wave using filters

Additive synth: adding harmonics to a raw wave

FM synth: modulating the frequency of a raw wave

etc..

.. Phys mod: ???

 

I can make a fairly acoustic sounding bassdrum using subtractive synthesis and a bit of reverb, or bells using FM, but would it only be considered phys mod synthesis if I called it that? I think the Ae guys said something similar in the AAA thread.

 

watch this immediately, everything you asked will be delivered by an awesome dude

Edited August 5, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:02 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

why did phys mod seem to be the next big thing in the 90's before dying on its arse, doomed to be explored by smaller companies making vsts and whatnot? not enough public interest?

not enough public interest + very high entry level price. The main companies pushing the envelope on phys mod were Korg and Yamaha (with the Vl series and Korg's oasys and original wavedrum, which uses zero samples) but the price tags when the stuff came out were incredibly high. One other challenge of phys mod synthesis, especially the stuff from the 90s is its not very easy to place elements of it comfortably in a mix, especially compared to acoustic instrument samples. Took me at least 5 years to get over just this hurdle, of how to actually mix in Yamaha vl1 sounds into songs in a way that didn't sound like shit

 

and in terms of 'doomed to be explored by smaller companies making vsts' not really since nothing software has even com close to touching Korg or Yamaha phys mod technology made in the 90s (yet). It will happen eventually though

Edited August 5, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

Sculpture is a beast of a synth, not tried any others. All of Logics synths sound good but there is a clean film of sound to logic I do not like which stops me using the majority of the logic plugs.

I once read how FM bells actually correspond with the physical workings of bells.

I think this:

http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/tutorials/html/tutorial_morephones.html

http://www.variophon.de/impuls_e.htm

 

amazing what you can do with some pulses and formant filters

I used to like Tassman for this but I haven't used it in a long time, so I can't say how v3 and v4 are.

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:02 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

...not enough public interest?

 

Personally I rather get a hammer, bang some type of body and field-record an interesting sound.

 

Besides saving memory on the small .exe, not using samples, emulating known instruments through physical modelling doesn't get me excited. Being able to define out of this world body, mallet sizes etc is cool though, but still...

sculpture is a hell of a lot of fun if you start automating the timbres, the possibilities for making completely unheard of sounds that could not be replicated in reality is vast.

  On 8/5/2015 at 8:31 PM, Djeroek said:

 

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:02 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

...not enough public interest?

 

Personally I rather get a hammer, bang some type of body and field-record an interesting sound.

 

Besides saving memory on the small .exe, not using samples, emulating known instruments through physical modelling doesn't get me excited.

 

well how about this: what if you could recreate a completely realistic wooden marimba sound in a phys mod synth and then manipulate the timbre in many different ways using automation? So for example the sound of someone dampening the ring out of the tone using a changing CC value. You might be able to pull a facsimile of this off using a LPF filter on a marimba sample, but it won't sound realistic.AAS Tassman at least in the melodic bell/marimba sound department sounds really great when using it like this

Edited August 5, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

When it was offer a year or so ago I got the whole AAS modelling collection, bloody brilliant collection though have yet to barely touch Tassman except for loading some of the presets and fiddle with them a bit ...

 

Well done Pete, another great use of yer money there !

Edited August 6, 2015 by skibby

  On 8/6/2015 at 12:24 PM, skibby said:

its very painful for me to watch other Yamaha VL1 demo videos, but then i remember that its probably good that most of the videos undersell its potential so i can have an easy shot at one if they go up for sale. With a software editor its pretty much a miracle box

Edited August 6, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

Love that the first preset shown in that is "MOBY".

How does Kaivo compare to the AAS products, it seems very interesting but I'm wondering if I 'really' need it in comparison to the AAS stuff. I just love my physical modelling !

  On 8/6/2015 at 12:24 PM, skibby said:

 

damn! i was sold on this synth 15 seconds into this video. that "Jurassic" patch later on is awesome too.

 

...then i saw the ebay prices.

 

 

crazy that this synth came out in 1994.

Yamaha is sitting on such awesome technology and instead we get... Reface.

  On 8/7/2015 at 1:12 PM, mcbpete said:

How does Kaivo compare to the AAS products, it seems very interesting but I'm wondering if I 'really' need it in comparison to the AAS stuff. I just love my physical modelling !

well Kaivo's strength is more of an experimental/sound design instrument. It's capable of some very usable timbers and drum sounds but it's a lot easier to get useable specific timbres out of Tassman and Chromaphone imo. Chromaphone is probably the single best drum physical modeling synth out besides the Nord Drum 2. Kaivo in terms of software gets the closest to the 'yamaha vl1 miracle weird zone' for me, but sonically speaking the richness and 'body' of the sounds isn't comparable. Sculpture is probably the closest thing out like Kaivo in terms of features and variety but has a lot more meaty sounding engine and better sonics but can't get quite as many different types of sounds as Kaivo (mainly because to access the part in Kaivo that lets you use samples to excite the physical model you can do it in program, in Sculpture you have to load it as an effect to access this feature). Doesn't Kaivo have a demo version?

Edited August 9, 2015 by John Ehrlichman