Separating Art from the Artist

Yes, another RF thread, but not for a little while I think. I've seen some of our members questioning this line of thought, but it really seems to bother me sometimes. Most recently with Terrence Howard. Circa 2005, I thought Hustle & Flow was one of the greatest hip hop movies of all time, and I still do. But the extent of this man's insanity makes me really sad, given how much Fox is hyping Empire Season 2. He is on record as a woman abuser, fuck he's divorced from his third wife while his divorce from his second wife is still pending, albeit abuse charges. My girl works in family court, so I hear a lot about men abusing women and children, it's a lot more prevalent in American than a lot of people believe. I'm not trying to get all TMZ on you watmm, but it really is a problem in America, especially in major metropolitan areas. How far do we let artists get with their personal lives before we call them on their bullshit? It seems to be much more prevalent in Hollywood with actors. Is US law that much more lenient? Does the US place less value on women and childrens' lives than the rest of the world? Seeing people like Roman Polasnki, John Huston, Kevin Spacey, Bryan Singer, Roland Emmerich, Gary Goddard, Garth Ancier, and David Neuman are notorious for skirting the law, being "chickenhawks" (a term for male adults who like to fuck barely legal gay boys while barely avoiding arrest) and getting away with sex with children really makes me sick sometimes. Hell, I wanna see the next X-Men movie as bad as the next comic book geek, but knowing a bunch of kids got fucked in the ass in the process makes it hard to sleep at night. Then we have the lesbian community, Ellen Page recently put Ted Cruz in his place by confronting him in public in Iowa about his bullshit views, but did she address male homosexual violations of US law? No. I got to personally speak to Ian McKellen on the phone, one of my film idols, when I won his quiz night at his pub a few months back, but I'm starting to get the creepy vibe that he fucks young boys as well, although his press team is much better at covering it up than any other gay Hollywood star currently of such stature. Please educate me, of course these are celebrities, people that have no real impact on our lives, but a huge impact on public opinion.

  On 9/21/2015 at 1:32 PM, Rubin Farr said:

I'm not trying to get all TMZ on you watmm, but

  On 9/21/2015 at 1:32 PM, Rubin Farr said:

I got to personally speak to Ian McKellen on the phone, one of my film idols, when I won his quiz night at his pub a few months back, but I'm starting to get the creepy vibe that he fucks young boys as well, although his press team is much better at covering it up than any other gay Hollywood star currently of such stature.

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paragraphs man, paragraphs!

  On 9/21/2015 at 1:32 PM, Rubin Farr said:

Hell, I wanna see the next X-Men movie as bad as the next comic book geek, but knowing a bunch of kids got fucked in the ass in the process makes it hard to sleep at night.

WAT?

well, true art asks for a certain sacrifice, so if it takes a couple of boy fuckings to achieve a truly great x-men movie i think this is a price the world can handle.

Is fucking young boys really that bad thing to do? I mean there are worse things one can do.

Most rock stars and actors fuck girls who have just become legal, it's not just the gay fellas doing it.

  On 9/21/2015 at 1:59 PM, triachus said:

 

  On 9/21/2015 at 1:32 PM, Rubin Farr said:

I'm not trying to get all TMZ on you watmm, but

  On 9/21/2015 at 1:32 PM, Rubin Farr said:

I got to personally speak to Ian McKellen on the phone, one of my film idols, when I won his quiz night at his pub a few months back, but I'm starting to get the creepy vibe that he fucks young boys as well, although his press team is much better at covering it up than any other gay Hollywood star currently of such stature.

you all are right, too tmz for watmm. the world is full of pervs, shit you can't make a sammich without some fuckhead trying to bore your asshole.

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The Xmen/McKellen part of the OP made me lol. Amazing.

my respect for the Patrick Stewart / Ian McKellen friendship is genuine, but yeah he has a few too many young vulnerable / gay dudes in his entourage. go to The Grapes on Monday night if you need proof. He is a great guy and they gave me a free bottle of wine as a quiz night prize, no joke. The food there is amazing as well.

What was the quiz about?

Name the guy

i thought this was going to about burzum or mel gibson or woody allen

the problem imo is not the fan/audience relationship with such artists, it's the inconsistent nature of the media (hollywood studios, entertainment press, etc) and their hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to apologizing for certain celebrities while vilifying others...for instance as much as Mel Gibson is a ultra-Catholic nutter he's really not done anything that has harmed anyone - beat women (various musicians), killed or injured people in car crashes (caitlyn jenner), abused underage boys and girls sexually, etc.

I suppose it all comes down to money and power but it is baffling to behold. I try my best to ignore it. I think to one can still appreciate the past work of disgraced artists to a great extent, it can and should be judged objectively - art is no longer 100% personal and private once it's published, especially by artists of the popularity we are discussing

  On 9/21/2015 at 3:16 PM, Friendly Foil said:

What was the quiz about?

Ian hosts a quiz night on general trivia every Monday, the first week I went I just observed him & his entourage. Next week, since I was the only Yank, they relied on me, maybe a little too heavily, haha. we sat at Ian's private table (refer to the Pub Night thread) but I got called up to the announcer, and won against the idiot I faced off against, so a free bottle of wine it was, and Ian was absent, so the bartender handed me the phone "hello? This is Sir Ian, did you win? is this Gandalf? haha yes, congrats sounds like you're an American, congratulations" it was surreal beyond words, and I was more than tanked. If you remember the hat I posted to look for, I lost it on the train :( but memories for a lifetime. I promised my team I would return the next week, but fuck all if I did. One chick looked a lot like Toni Collette, she wanted to see my iPhone but didn't recognize any of my music except Annie Lennox. haha, gotta love London.

To take an extreme example, if Hitler's paintings hadn't been shit, then I don't think there'd be any problem appreciating them on their own as art objects. To me that's an entirely separate consideration to views about the artist as a person. Of course, just because you might appreciate the artistic output of someone shouldn't give them a free pass in other areas, under the law for example, or just making them free from moral judgement in general. So I can like the films of Roman Polanski and still think he should've been jailed for being a scumbag, there's no contradiction there. The only complication might arise would be where someone is particularly contemptible, and your support of their art helps them maintain their lifestyle, which could well include continuing their contemptible acts, and so you would become complicit.

good point.

I don't really base anyone's art on them as a person. Bukowski was an all round shitty person and Burroughs killed his wife but they are two of my favourite authors. I won't watch a Woody Allen film and think about the shitty stuff he is accused of, etc.

Edit: unless their art is shit, then I'm judging the fuck outta them.

Some of the over 40's in this place are really lowering the tone. Whether it be Farr's multiple threads or that other notorious broken record of a middle aged man keen to share himself wit da youth with a bit of creative writing which sounds good in his head. Farr, you being a nerd i don't know how you can fit in all these TV series, Lego and Xbox + 6 hours a day on Music Makers in one day. There doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day for your schedule of bullshit. Bryan Singer and MacKellen hooked up on Apt Pupil to satisfy their lust for the young flesh so your 40+ thread is 10 years out of date.

Maybe it's a bit of selective reading on my part, but from what I gather you were drunk dialed by Gandalf and then later, in the darkness he bound you and called you his precious.

If that is the case I certainly wouldn't be able to watch LOTR again the same way either.

Wait, so you're claiming Ian mcKellen is a pedophile based on what? That's quite the allegation to be honest. And what's that about Kevin Spacey (I don't read TMZ so I have no idea)?

Anyway, only example I can think if is Burzum. Always loved his music (Belus was his last good album though) but the guy behind it is not the type of guy I'd get along with... I tried to boycot him but his internet presence these days is just too fun to ignore. I stopped buying his music years ago though (so yeah, +1 on caze's post).

  On 9/21/2015 at 2:04 PM, Verdant Hickies said:

lol

You guyz lol. I'm not accusing Ian of anything really, he just has a lot of young dudes following him around, but is that surprising for a 70 something gay icon? I made the mistake of small talk with the bartender, and bc I have an earring, he started taking to me like I was gay haha.

Seinfeld - "not that there's anything wrong with that"