exactly how difficult/ time consuming would it be to make a synth in max/msp?

I'm currently putting the finishing touches on a composition for string orchestra, piano celesta and synthesizer, I'm working with a roland jx-305 because it's the only hardware synth i have access to and it sounds ok but i've basically just been manipulating onboard patches and making them sound the way i want them but i think that for future compositions i'd like to have total control over the sounds i'm using...which is why i'm asking this. I've heard all about how difficult it is to program etc. (incidentally reaktor is not a desireable substitute) and i'm not in any way au fait with electronic music production anyway, but basically all i would want to be doing is creating interesting new timbres to add to conventional instruments in live performance via a midi keyboard/ electric piano.

Anyone have any general guidelines/ advice?

it can be very timeconsuming, depending on how complex you want your synth to be ofcourse...seriously, i'd recommend you to get a little more used to multiple forms of synthesis before you dive into max/msp. a jx305 isn't the best machine to learn about synthesis on. so i'd say, get a few simpeler, hard-wired softsynths and fuck around with them until you know exactly what you are doing. you'll start coming up with ideas after that; like you discover certain shortcomings in certain synths and you start to think of ways to fix those things, or you'll think of methods for expanding those synths and customizing them to your needs. once your at the point that you know about the internal architecture of common synths and how to improve on that internal architecture, check out maxmsp..

i'd hoped not to hear this but ok, thanks, what synths would you recommend me to check out in particular?

it can be very time consuming

  cakeface said:

i'd hoped not to hear this but ok, thanks, what synths would you recommend me to check out in particular?

Nord Modular / G2

NI Reaktor

Kawai K5000s (honestly, if you can fully understand how to program this machine, I will steal your brain because I need it).

it depends on what you want it to do. to build a simple monophonic synth is not that hard with the aid of tutorials like this

ah, brilliant- cheers mate

  cakeface said:

i'd hoped not to hear this but ok, thanks, what synths would you recommend me to check out in particular?

try out Reaktor, it's extremely easy to build a synth. Follow the tutorial on my website "7 Building a Synth and Sampler from scratch" to see how. After you feel like you've hit a wall with Reaktor i would try out maxmsp

pt 1 of synth building

pt 2 of synth building

build a sampler from scratch

i agree....i dont get why u exclude reaktor in your 1st post....its pretty damn easy to program a synth + there's already a bunch that come w/ reaktor...

Well perhaps i was overhasty to dismiss reaktor but, essentially, apart from creating the sounds i need, i also have to consider "scoreability" i.e. every aspect of every synth i create needs to be written down so the player can build/ tweak them and in this respect reaktor, purely by virtue of it's nicer presentation, makes things a little difficult whereas the simple presentation of max/msp is much more akin to notated music. It may seem like a stupid reason but as far as i can see it could present some problems...no?

i actually find it easier to build shit with max than reaktor but i know i am in the minority.

reaktor is a lot more instant grafitication though, as you can use it as a plug in right out of the box and fuck around with billions of already made factory or usemade ensembles and or disect them and figure out how to do insane shit.

  aeser said:

i actually find it easier to build shit with max than reaktor but i know i am in the minority.

 

reaktor is a lot more instant grafitication though, as you can use it as a plug in right out of the box and fuck around with billions of already made factory or usemade ensembles and or disect them and figure out how to do insane shit.

do you find it less time consuming to build something to meet the same ends in maxmsp or in reaktor?

i find most people who prefer maxmsp come from a programming/more technical background and most of the people who get into reaktor are usually musicians with little or no programmin/coding abilities. Aeser is quite right, the instant gratifcation part of reaktor is definitly a plus, and might even mislead some into thinking its not a very deep program (especially with all the flashy user interfaces) And to be honest most reaktor users, id say 90% dont do anything but play with other peoples patches and use presets, for that alone its probably the most expansive and versatile synth/sampler/effect out there. but If you want to make your own stuff, the limitations of reaktor are tigher than maxmsp, but i find it much easier to make a pleasing instrument with good timbre faster than it is with maxmsp. Things that are purely synthesis in maxmsp usually sound very basic and raw and i personally find it very difficult to make them sound high quality. Sampling on the other hand usually sounds great in maxmsp.

yeah max/msp is much faster once you get the hang of it. it's also much cooler. it's too bad you can't run it as a vst, you have to do the whole pluggo thing first. anyone exerienced in hooking sequencer and max together via midi? easy?

I just got finished making a synth in max/msp for this computer music class I was in...

It's a fairly elaborate affair... took me a couple weeks to make, maybe working an hour or two most days. Take into account though that I'm a bit of a novice at the program, but have a pretty good programming background... It may take longer or shorter depending on experience in the area.

As I said it's fairly elaborate, and thus quite a CPU hog. This may be because of my lack of much experience, though. I'm sure there are ways I could have streamlined the thing. The next thing I make will be much better CPU-wise with the experience I gained in creating this one, and most likely better audio manipulation-wise. Needless to say, I think if you have no experience whatsoever with it, it would take quite a while to get anything that's really any different than something you'd get with a soft-synth or hardware.

  Forlon said:

yeah max/msp is much faster once you get the hang of it. it's also much cooler. it's too bad you can't run it as a vst, you have to do the whole pluggo thing first. anyone exerienced in hooking sequencer and max together via midi? easy?

Yeah, really easy if you just use a virtual MIDI cable like MIDI yoke, or Maple VMC.

yeah midi is simple... as long as you just need the notes and controllers.

what i'd like to do is to SYNC my pd patches to midi and SEND sysex. any ideas?

http://www.synthedit.com/

free