Sam Harris vs. Glenn Greenwald

Sam Harris is finally fed up with Gleen Greenwald:

 

Have a summary? Want to discuss a specific point? Do you have a specific opinion you'd like to share?

he's been 'fed up' with Greenwald forever, pretty much ever since Glenn exposed the fact that Sam Harris is essentially influencing people to think more like a neocon but pretending to be a liberal. I'd be fed up too if I was exposed as being a liar and a sociopath, its probably not fun to be one, especially if you were doing it as a career (and thought that real liberals wouldn't eventually figure out your horrendously bullshitty routine) . Going on Bill Maher probably made the guy a bit delusional, thinking wrongly that because he was around the presence of another bigoted 'post 9/11 liberal' he could somehow get away with it for a long time. Not the case

Edited October 19, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:13 AM, goDel said:

Have a summary? Want to discuss a specific point? Do you have a specific opinion you'd like to share?

 

Sam Harris is fucking pissed off

(I've never once seen him lose his cool before)

and he very eloquently presents the case that Glenn Greenwald is a dishonest hack

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:21 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

he's been 'fed up' with Greenwald forever, pretty much ever since Glenn exposed the fact that Sam Harris is essentially influencing people to think more like a neocon but pretending to be a liberal. I'd be fed up too if I was exposed as being a liar and a sociopath, its probably not fun to be one, especially if you were doing it as a career (and thought that real liberals wouldn't eventually figure out your horrendously bullshitty routine)

 

Can you present some evidence that he's "a liar and a sociopath"?

he endorses torture, only a liar or a sociopath would do that. I'm sorry if you don't agree :(

he thinks American foreign policy is waged with 'good intentions' therefore when we kill civilians its not inherently evil, but when ISIS does it it is inherently evil. These are the hallmarks of an individual deluded by nationalism, jingoism patriotism and arrogance, all of these combined can probably give one a genuine sociopath diagnosis by a clinical psychologist.

he's also a serious piece of shit and I really hope we stop seeing his dead-eyed face on this forum as often as we do now.

Edited October 19, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

So, what has Greenwald done for you lately? Last thing I remember was that he was planning to do his own media outlet after the Snowden leaks. Funded by some Silicon Valley hotshot. Haven't seen or heard anything after.

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out Edited October 19, 2015 by John Ehrlichman

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:24 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

he endorses torture, only a liar or a sociopath would do that. I'm sorry if you don't agree :(

he thinks American foreign policy is waged with 'good intentions' therefore when we kill civilians its not inherently evil, but when ISIS does it it is inherently evil. These are the hallmarks of an individual deluded by nationalism, jingoism patriotism and arrogance, all of these combined can probably give one a genuine sociopath diagnosis by a clinical psychologist.

he's also a serious piece of shit and I really hope we stop seeing his dead-eyed face on this forum as often as we do now.

 

Please drop the ad hominem bullshit. I think it's pretty stupid to invalidate human beings with some psychological generalisations based on some opinion they have. Harris is not a sociopath simply because of his opinions. You could ask any clinical psychologist. (And what kind of argument is this? Is there a club of hypothetical psychologists who could speak on your, or mine, behalf?)

Disagreement is fine, but this is pathetic. Even more because of some use of vague sense of moral highground.

Yes! Heard about the intercept! Interested in the leak on drones. Good stuff. If that was from Greenwald's hand, he's earned 10 karma points on good journalism.

 

Edit: ive missed citizen four, so have to check into that. Noise artist winning an academy award sounds like an artistic and social innovation!

Edited October 19, 2015 by goDel

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:24 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

he endorses torture, only a liar or a sociopath would do that. I'm sorry if you don't agree :(

 

he thinks American foreign policy is waged with 'good intentions' therefore when we kill civilians its not inherently evil, but when ISIS does it it is inherently evil. These are the hallmarks of an individual deluded by nationalism, jingoism patriotism and arrogance, all of these combined can probably give one a genuine sociopath diagnosis by a clinical psychologist.

 

he's also a serious piece of shit and I really hope we stop seeing his dead-eyed face on this forum as often as we do now.

 

Again with the torture?

I'm still waiting for you to answer a single moral dilemma I've presented to you.

You seem to duck out of the thread whenever I present a difficult moral question.

 

But silly me, I'll try again....what are your thoughts on this? What would you do?

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/torture/#CasStuBea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkJdUyK5SY

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:33 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

 

 

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

 

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out

 

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:33 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

 

 

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

 

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out

 

It's funny:

You were wrong on the Charlie Hebdo issue (your position seemed roughly to be "shame on them for drawing the Prophet")

I've never once seen you criticize Islam.

You don't seem worried by the international polling data on Islamist beliefs (spoiler: it's not good)

You've admitted that you think people who criticize Islam secretly just don't like dark-skinned people.

You dodge moral dilemmas where "torture" is the less horrible of two options, and then you call others "pro-torture."

I mean, I'm happy to continue...

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:43 AM, usagi said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkJdUyK5SY

  Quote

 

 

You don't seem worried by the international polling data on Islamist beliefs (spoiler: it's not good)

Can you provide a link so that I can see?

here's a little indie called Pew

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 9:08 AM, Brisbot said:

 

  Quote

 

 

You don't seem worried by the international polling data on Islamist beliefs (spoiler: it's not good)

Can you provide a link so that I can see?

 

 

Here are the Pew numbers:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

 

(it gets progressively more horrifying as you scroll down)

Oh man, it has polls by country too. Definitely important since things vary so widely.

That said I wonder how much pressure there is on them to lean to the right side of the polls. Just for instance, many of them might not take Sharia literally, but are pressured into saying it is, or saying they want it to be the law of the land, but in reality they would rather not.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Brisbot

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:46 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:33 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

 

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkJdUyK5SY

 

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

 

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:33 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

 

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

 

 

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

 

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out

It's funny:

You were wrong on the Charlie Hebdo issue (your position seemed roughly to be "shame on them for drawing the Prophet")

I've never once seen you criticize Islam.

You don't seem worried by the international polling data on Islamist beliefs (spoiler: it's not good)

You've admitted that you think people who criticize Islam secretly just don't like dark-skinned people.

You dodge moral dilemmas where "torture" is the less horrible of two options, and then you call others "pro-torture."

I mean, I'm happy to continue...

 

That video is amazing

Actually, where can I find statistics on the actual # of stonings per year, beheadings, finger cut-offs for stealing, Deaths for leaving islam, etc.

The survey sheds light into their beliefs but practice is more important. Might show just how much pressure there is to be a certain way.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Brisbot

And what's the point of these survey numbers? What would you want us to conclude? Islam is bad? I'm as much interested in surveys on how muslim interpret the koran as on christians interpreting the bible. (read: I'm not interested in their religious beliefs)

btw that video is sexy af

  On 10/19/2015 at 9:24 AM, triachus said:

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:46 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:33 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

 

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkJdUyK5SY

 

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

 

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:33 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

you haven't heard of the Intercept.com or the movie that won an academy award for best picture called Citizen Four filmed buy Laura Poitras starring Glenn Greenwald?

 

fun fact: first noise artist to ever win an academy award was Trevor Paglen for his work on Citizen four

 

here's the video in which I think Sam was responding to while we was recovering from the assholes that were torn all over his torso

 

 

Gleen Greenwald VS Sam Harris, Greenwald Wins FATALITY

 

love that Sam took the bait again, hilarious that he can't resist making these embarrassing as fuck response videos every time someone calls him out

It's funny:

You were wrong on the Charlie Hebdo issue (your position seemed roughly to be "shame on them for drawing the Prophet")

I've never once seen you criticize Islam.

You don't seem worried by the international polling data on Islamist beliefs (spoiler: it's not good)

You've admitted that you think people who criticize Islam secretly just don't like dark-skinned people.

You dodge moral dilemmas where "torture" is the less horrible of two options, and then you call others "pro-torture."

I mean, I'm happy to continue...

 

 

 

  On 10/19/2015 at 9:28 AM, goDel said:

And what's the point of these survey numbers? What would you want us to conclude? Islam is bad? I'm as much interested in surveys on how muslim interpret the koran as on christians interpreting the bible. (read: I'm not interested in their religious beliefs)

The polls were just a minor point in my post to JE

Brisbot asked for a link, so I posted it

That's all

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  On 10/19/2015 at 8:24 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

he endorses torture, only a liar or a sociopath would do that. I'm sorry if you don't agree :(

 

he thinks American foreign policy is waged with 'good intentions' therefore when we kill civilians its not inherently evil, but when ISIS does it it is inherently evil. These are the hallmarks of an individual deluded by nationalism, jingoism patriotism and arrogance, all of these combined can probably give one a genuine sociopath diagnosis by a clinical psychologist.

 

he's also a serious piece of shit and I really hope we stop seeing his dead-eyed face on this forum as often as we do now.

 

if you listen to the link posted you'll see that he has in fact not endorsed toture, it is others writing about him that have slated him with this, and that is in fact the beef that he has with these people like greenwald, that they rely on lying, deliberate distortions to attack someone and are entirely unrepentant about it. Now whilst i don't agree with harris' assessment of reality, and find some of his presentation of the US position, delusional. i am very suspicious of greenwald's character and motivations these days, and am somewhat in agreement with the hack journalist internet troll line that harris quite eloquently and convincing put forward. I think it's true that anytime anyone brings up the political islam is dangerous to the west line. They get jumped on by liberal stooges, and greenwald and and others that harris mentions seem to fit that triggered bully persona.

I only have one question that has always bothered me about this topic, how people on the glenn "camp" explaing the human rights violations (public excecutions, opression of women etc) i mean you can try to explain it as human nature i get that point but i just dont see it, all i see is a religion with some fucked up rules.

 

(please dont start with the we bombed them so they are angry cause im not talking about that and i agree 90 percent with that point )

Edited October 19, 2015 by Deer