Gear advice for enthusiastic newbie.

Hi WATMM,

I haven't introduced myself yet, will soon.

So, i've been wanting to begin music for some time, first with Ableton and then with some hardware stuff.

BUT, i've not yet put enough effort to really learn how to work it all. Ableton got me bored soon enough because i wanted to touch real stuff. I wanted funny/easy things to start with, but i'm afraid i didn't made the best choices.

I got myself a roland mc 303 and a shruthi 1 SMR4.

I'm not motivated enough for the MC303 since I realised i want something with sounds that are more diverse, less "typé" and more aerial. Fluenter, i might say.

I like the Shruthi 1 for being full of potential, but as the newbie i am, trying to make it work is a pain in the arse, or maybe i'm just silly.

So, i'm looking forward selling the mc 303, or both. I'm also on a budget

I'm looking for the most versatile thing possible. Some pads and knobs would be really nice, too.

At the moment I've got my eyes on the microkorg, the alesis micron, the alpha juno 1, the microbrute, the bass station II ...

I'd like something analog or kind-of analog.

I've been eating info quasi non stop for hours, I don't know if i see very clear now, so, could you shed a light on my case please?

Thanks for your reply

i'm checking demo videos of the JV80 and i must admit it makes me feel blue

If you want to learn basic subtractive from scratch I can't think of a better way than a roland sh09. Basically a slightly warmer version of the classic sh101 but minus the sequencer etc. there are newer alternatives, arturia brutes, vermona mono, moog Minotaur etc.

I doubt others would agree but I'm going to go ahead and recommend you keep the Shruthi. Buy a cheap-ish sampler, just something with a sequencer like an ESX or MPC (500 or 100 are cheapest). Get an fx unit (maybe a mini kaoss pad), cheap is fine but something that just looks fun to tweak and sounds pretty good. And then just explore. I was rocking basically just a Shruthi, an MPC1000, and a mini KP for about a year and it was a good time, great for live tweaking once you get the hang of it. And with a sampler you can resample to beef up your polyphony. There's good sounds of all sorts in the Shruthi if you aren't afraid to explore and give it some room to breathe.

As far as your lust list, I'd recommend against the Micron unless you're very motivated and have some time on your hands. It's capable of some great sounds but I found the UI painful to use, probably in the top 3 worst hardware interfaces I've worked with. The Microbrute is fun but somewhat limited, but since you're at the beginning of your journey it might take a while to get tired of it. The MicroKorg also seems like a good time and is also flexible, but I'm afraid it might not be a whole lot better than the Micron. Not familiar with the Alpha Juno 1.

You might also consider a volca or two.

Don't go too nuts stocking up on gear. Seriously just buy 1 thing at a time, and right now I recommend either an fx unit or a sampler. Hang onto that Shruthi and the MC303 might not be too bad when it's run through the right fx.

Thank you all.

I'd love an SH-09 or another Roland with lots of tweakable buttons but can't afford it for the moment.

I've found an alpha juno 2 for 200€, the more i think of it, the more i crave it as a first poly

and will probably pick an arturia beatstep pretty soon !

Don't buy a bunch of stuff you don't need until you're more comfortable in the box and have developed your production and listening chops to the point that you understand what various types of gear do and why you'd benefit from a particular piece. If you want diversity and flexibility, the computer is where you need to focus your efforts, and there are other DAWs than ableton that might suit you better.

The microkorg is a fun piece of gear but like the rest of the stuff you've got your eyes on, it's quite limited. it offers some unique opportunities for live guitar processing with its extraordinary FX, but other than that there's not much you won't get out of a free vst like synth1.

A budget monophonic analog makes very little sense as a first purchase, if anything you should get a more flexible workhorse (which will cost you, which is why you need to be able to tell what you need and don't), but maybe that's just me

DX7 is probably the best advice so far but FM synthesis is a bit hefty for a beginner

On second thought, I might actually agree that a monophonic synth might not be a best first synth. However, after playing with polys for years, I really enjoyed stripping down to a monosynth and with the Shruthi in particular I was quite surprised at how much I could do with just a single note, especially when resampling. Surely part of that was listening to more music with monosynths over those years like electro and acid, Drexciya in particular.

I think a workstation might be a good approach, especially one that's actually a proper synth. On the cheaper end of the spectrum the ESQ1 and SQ80 come to mind, though I haven't checked the prices on those lately. I don't have it anymore, but picked up my SQ80 for $200 in 2002.

Last note re:FM - my first "real" synth was a TX81Z. I guess because I didn't know any better and didn't have other tools available, I didn't mind the interface and had a great time making all variety of sounds with it. 15 years later I don't use it nearly as much but I don't feel like I've outgrown it.

You can get a whole lot of sounds out of one good sampler and maybe one multimode analog filter.

Also, depending on what you're in to, many mid to late 90s romplers are still pretty unpopular (i.e. cheap) and can actually get a really wide array of sounds if you actually learn to program them. Sometimes they're not that great for live tweaking out of the box but you could pair one with a BCR2000 or something and have a pretty diverse bunch of sounds for a couple hundred dollars (assuming you aren't also shopping for a hardware sequencer to go with it). Something to consider.

Best gear advice I can give you is just get one thing that is good at lots of stuff instead of something that is great but at only one thing. Else you will be having to spend $5000-$20000 on a whole bunch of other gear to accompany the one instrument you want to master. Although I am a big fan of FM synthesis and the Yamaha DX series, I can't really recommend them for a beginner because programming is unintuitive and more complicated when compared to other synths.

Even though you are not impressed with the MC-303, I'm with sweepstakes in recommending a workstation unit (like the MC series) rather than something specific. Electribe series are very good cheap-to-midrange units to work with and work good with computer MIDI and on their own.

Thank you all for your replies, it's really helping me to clear things out :-)

It's true that i must not "go nuts on stocking up gear" as sweepstakes said. That's exactly what i was beginning to do !

As for now i've decided to stick to what i've already got and add an arturia beatstep for the control, it will already be an insight and the beginning of some sort of comprehension.

Chim, thanks for pushing me towards DAW and computer, it's probably the best place to start in my current situation.

.... Already excited to stock $$$ in order to buy a PROPER SYNTH :-)

But still, too bad that all these old synths are so damn expensive

I think it's hard to argue with MPC1000 + JJOS as a centerpiece to a setup, I've never owned one but a few people I know have had them a one time or another ant they're really solid as long as you don't get an early one with the original, bad pads (they can be replaced though).

You could of course get a Push for Ableton.

I'd suggest really trying out an Alesis Micron before purchasing one; I've had one for years and I've barely used it, despite it being able to make some great sounds. Ultimately there's SO MUCH menu-diving on a tiny screen that it is worse than a computer. Yeah, you can touch the keys and it has a few knobs, but ultimately it's so difficult to dig in to the guts of it to truly 'make' sounds that I find it hard to believe that most people will find it a truly useful machine.

What chim said.

It's really hard to give and take advice in places like this as we all come from such different times, backgrounds, start points and influences. I guess you need to work out what you need as opposed to what you think you need. The DAW IS the most powerful thing at your fingertips but their are huge downsides to it and if those downsides niggle you then maybe you need some hardware with a good interface. At this stage I don't think you need hardware that is less intuitive than the DAW.

If you really want to strip down to basics but need something that is not a one trick pony, flexible and fun. Get one or two electribes, old or new.

A synth and a drum machine, synced up can be such fun and you can learn a lot.

If you get the wrong piece of gear too early it could put you off gear for good or make you keep swapping gear until you find the things that work for you. That's the way I went.

In here everyone thinks their way is the best way, but none are, it's just the only way they know. take it all with a pinch of salt, including all this bullshit ^^^ ;)

Good luck

  On 12/28/2015 at 2:32 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

if you have a micron, try my editor for max

 

max 5+6:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/et0l5h9f1abrpji/CTL-micronedit.maxpat?dl=0

 

max 7 +

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s60h6ssjx1i02rs/CTL-micronedit-max7.maxpat?dl=0

I'm just seeing this...downloaded the Max 7+ file and got it opened in a window and all (interface looks clean and simple!), but I can't seem to get it editing (I'm pretty shit at Max/MIDI in general so I'm not sure where to start figuring out what I'm doing wrong...). I only have Max for Live btw. Is there a basic Max patch creation/usage thing I'm not understanding yet? Thanks in advance, it looks like it was a lot of work.

my way really is the best tho.

i live in swamp. if you travel to me i will teach you.

  On 12/28/2015 at 12:38 AM, llll said:

But still, too bad that all these old synths are so damn expensive

As you are a noob, i advice you to buy synths that do not enforce menu diving for programming patches. MicroKorg and all the others suck deeply in that regard, also a lot 80ies/90ies digital synths.

List of new synths that i tested and find ok'ish or better and that are below 1000€:

Roland System 1m

Korg MS-20 Mini / MS-20m

Kilpatrick Phenol

The Volca Bass and Keys

Additionally to that list i approve on all kinds of older nord lead, nord lead rack synths. (the older ones can be bought under 1000€ on ebay)