Apple's response to the US Government

This is a thorny issue

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

Why is it a thorny issue? Apple provided exactly the response they should have.

Unless you mean the issue of the FBI asking to further expand its powers? That is indeed thorny.

I don't get why its okay for Apple to access that data but the Government shouldn't?

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:18 PM, digman said:

I don't get why its okay for Apple to access that data but the Government shouldn't?

Just because its stored doesn't mean it can be accessed. They cant see anything if its encrypted. Thats the point.

not entirely convinced Apple will go very far out of their way to defend "our" position yet.

but after this message, it would be disastrous for them PR wise if they backpedalled now, so either way this will be fun to watch.

And let's hope the FBI will finally give in - Apple is highly influential and I would love to see them just using all their $$$ to improve the situation for everyone.

It's on national news here even, it,s a good thing that this gets public exposure...

also interesting fodder for murrikah presidential debates, this will probably expose the technical cluelessness of all the candidates

I actually agree with most of what he says, though he leans a bit too much on the slippery slope argumentation.

given the nature of the debate, i tend to err on the safe side and say wow FBI, get your noses out of my business. It's fun no? The USA might have to take a look in the mirror and realise why the fuck they are the subject to terrorism.

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:20 PM, phling said:

not entirely convinced Apple will go very far out of their way to defend "our" position yet.

but after this message, it would be disastrous for them PR wise if they backpedalled now, so either way this will be fun to watch.

And let's hope the FBI will finally give in - Apple is highly influential and I would love to see them just using all their $$$ to improve the situation for everyone.

It's on national news here even, it,s a good thing that this gets public exposure...

also interesting fodder for murrikah presidential debates, this will probably expose the technical cluelessness of all the candidates

While all the presidential candidates might be clueless, at least one congressman probably has a pretty good idea of what's going on:

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/apple-iphone-encryption-ted-lieu-fbi-court-order/

Interestingly, Cox Communications is also refusing to spy on its customers on behalf of the copyright industry:

http://hothardware.com/news/cox-wont-spy-on-customers-to-appease-copyright-holders

I don't think Apple would back-pedal on this - the backlash would be huge.

An interesting theory is that the backdoor already exists, and this is simply an attempt by the US gov't to propagate the story that the iPhone is secure, so that terrorists will continue to use the iPhone. Similar to how the UK gov't spent much effort convincing the Germans that they hadn't cracked the Enigma code.

we have been lied to before and still are being lied to to this day.

i wonder though.. is it possible that a backdoor exists that we are not aware of? how is that possible with a billion users and some tech savvy vigilantes in there?

I wonder if the FBI will try to convince other smartphone manufacturers to allow backdoors as well.

I pretty much agree with Tim Cook one hundred percent. It's one thing to try and fight terrorism (how long as this been going on now?), but it's another to have innocent parties compromise their right to privacy in the process. Pretty much an echo of the PATRIOT Act.

Infringement on civil liberties is a greater threat than terrorism, if you ask me.

i assumed the fcc was basically in the business of mandating backdoors into consumer electronics

I see this as a purely public relations based move given the flat sales figures which they may be thinking is tied in with the huge scandal of the cloud 'hack' (perhaps outside of the US this would be effecting consumer decisions, but within the US the sales numbers from their more naive consumers would primarily be driven by a lack of disposable income which can be seen all over a collapsing retail sector) and it'll be business as usual covertly stealing all your personal and business secrets on behalf of the US security state through hidden back doors, off into the future. But I would think that wouldn't I, /leaves thread

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:41 PM, double uv said:

i wonder though.. is it possible that a backdoor exists that we are not aware of? how is that possible with a billion users and some tech savvy vigilantes in there?

A pretty good non-technical review of the security process for iPhone models 5s and beyond: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160216/17393733617/no-judge-did-not-just-order-apple-to-break-encryption-san-bernardino-shooters-iphone-to-create-new-backdoor.shtml#c851

The San Bernardino shooters' phone is an iPhone 5c though, which has a slightly different physical security setup.

  On 2/17/2016 at 9:13 PM, delet... said:

I see this as a purely public relations based move given the flat sales figures which they may be thinking is tied in with the huge scandal of the cloud 'hack', and it'll be business as usual covertly stealing all your personal and business secrets on behalf of the US security state through back doors, off into the future. But I would think that wouldn't I, /leaves thread

Considering they just had their biggest quarter ever of iPhone sales, that's probably not the reason.

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:09 PM, chenGOD said:

Why is it a thorny issue? Apple provided exactly the response they should have.

Unless you mean the issue of the FBI asking to further expand its powers? That is indeed thorny.

Yes, I meant taking the Federal Government's word that they won't exploit this in the future. After Snowden and the NSA spying program, they could just rationalize a reason to renig on their commitment once another conservative President is in office.

  On 2/17/2016 at 9:25 PM, Rubin Farr said:

 

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:09 PM, chenGOD said:

Why is it a thorny issue? Apple provided exactly the response they should have.

Unless you mean the issue of the FBI asking to further expand its powers? That is indeed thorny.

Yes, I meant taking the Federal Government's word that they won't exploit this in the future. After Snowden and the NSA spying program, they could just rationalize a reason to renig on their commitment once another conservative President is in office.

 

TBH, I don't think it matters to the alphabet agencies whether a dem or repub is in office, they're going to do their damnedest to expand their authority regardless. I think the resilience depends on the individual president, regardless of party affiliation.

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:33 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:20 PM, phling said:

not entirely convinced Apple will go very far out of their way to defend "our" position yet.

but after this message, it would be disastrous for them PR wise if they backpedalled now, so either way this will be fun to watch.

And let's hope the FBI will finally give in - Apple is highly influential and I would love to see them just using all their $$$ to improve the situation for everyone.

It's on national news here even, it,s a good thing that this gets public exposure...

also interesting fodder for murrikah presidential debates, this will probably expose the technical cluelessness of all the candidates

 

While all the presidential candidates might be clueless, at least one congressman probably has a pretty good idea of what's going on:

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/apple-iphone-encryption-ted-lieu-fbi-court-order/

 

Interestingly, Cox Communications is also refusing to spy on its customers on behalf of the copyright industry:

http://hothardware.com/news/cox-wont-spy-on-customers-to-appease-copyright-holders

 

I don't think Apple would back-pedal on this - the backlash would be huge.

 

An interesting theory is that the backdoor already exists, and this is simply an attempt by the US gov't to propagate the story that the iPhone is secure, so that terrorists will continue to use the iPhone. Similar to how the UK gov't spent much effort convincing the Germans that they hadn't cracked the Enigma code.

 

I wonder about that too... I wouldn't be surprised if the NSA, not the FBI had the backdoor already, and this was a smokescreen to cover that up.

  On 2/17/2016 at 9:16 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/17/2016 at 9:13 PM, delet... said:

I see this as a purely public relations based move given the flat sales figures which they may be thinking is tied in with the huge scandal of the cloud 'hack', and it'll be business as usual covertly stealing all your personal and business secrets on behalf of the US security state through back doors, off into the future. But I would think that wouldn't I, /leaves thread

 

Considering they just had their biggest quarter ever of iPhone sales, that's probably not the reason.

 

Their sales only increased a bit over last quarter, which some are saying is indication the iPhone has reached the saturation point (despite their recent ironic introduction in China).

I'm skeptical:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/31/apple-says-it-has-never-worked-with-nsa-to-create-iphone-backdoors-is-unaware-of-alleged-dropoutjeep-snooping-program/

  On 2/17/2016 at 8:41 PM, double uv said:

we have been lied to before and still are being lied to to this day.

 

i wonder though.. is it possible that a backdoor exists that we are not aware of? how is that possible with a billion users and some tech savvy vigilantes in there?

only last year did researchers discover that a computer worm that's been out for almost 20 years was (possibly) created by .us and .il

as for an apple backdoor. not sure if one exists (i personally don't think so) but i know this request from the fbi is about saving them time and money- two things that apple now has more of.

how weird: we now feel safer from a company that's got more funds than the government, than the government itself

i wouldn't rely on apple for protection. it's nice they are standing up for whatever but i don't have a lot of faith in mega corporations to do the right thing. once in a while i'm surprised but generally i don't put my faith in them.

"Who do they think they are? They have to open it up, ... I think security, overall, we have to open it up and we have to use our heads. We have to use common sense."

Donald pls

bwahahah:

https://www.facebook.com/events/186190735081981/

spoiler: silly Facebook protest event @ SF Apple Shoppe

there's even a protest sign website just for this:

https://www.protestsign.org

2016

\_(ツ)_/¯

  On 2/17/2016 at 9:51 PM, Joyrex said:

I wonder about that too... I wouldn't be surprised if the NSA, not the FBI had the backdoor already, and this was a smokescreen to cover that up.

DROPOUTJEEP is a NSA software inplant for iOS. It has the ability to remotely push/pull files from the device to include SMS retrieval, contact list retrieval, voicemail, geolocation, hot mic, camera capture and cell tower location. Command, control and data exfiltration can occur over SMS messaging. All communications with the implant will be covert and encrypted.

I do not know for sure if this particular piece of software has ability to access the iPhone 5c running iOS 9. The gunman's iPhone was password protected and is set to erase a stored decryption key after ten unsuccessful login attemptes.

Apple stated: with a supercomputer, it would take over five and a half years to crack the six-digit passcode with lowercase letters and numerals. Brute-forcing a strong passcode could take decades.

Basically, the FBI is asking Apple to create software that doesn't exist, yet... that will unlock or bypass the iOS encryption. As stated by the FBI, they only need it for this phone but whos to say the FBI won't go back to the well and use the software on other iPhone for other on-going cases.

^ as I understand, DropOutJeep worked on older phones with older iOS versions, which did not have the sophisticated hardware-based encryption features that newer phones have... iOS & the phone hardware has evolved quite a bit in the last 5 or 6 years, and this Jeep thingie is a bit old.

much like an old jailbreak for iOS 5 won't be able to unlock your new iPhone, this particular Jeep (which must have cost a ton of money to develop) is very likely very useless nowadays...