afx nft

  On 3/15/2021 at 1:16 PM, mcbpete said:

Jokes on them ...

 

Expand  

d e v i l i s h

with the sound playing, has anyone else got the "Am i doing this againn... am i ddoing thisss agaaain?" sample playing in their head?

  On 3/15/2021 at 3:06 AM, cern said:

Sold for 72.00 ETH $136,422.00

Looks like the ETH exchange rate dropped $6K since the purchase.

Now... 72.00 ETH = $129,083.76

  On 3/15/2021 at 11:13 AM, Amen Warrior said:

How on earth has this gotten 2000 likes? And how do I non-funge the original?

That pic is funny

can never unfunge 

Most IDM 2021

Selling a gif and audio loop for 72.00 ETH then planting a forest to offset the carbon footprint of said gif

And it’s not even selling the gif that’s the funniest part to me. It’s selling a fact.

It's not a gif, it's looped .mp4 vid...

oops...

  On 3/15/2021 at 9:51 AM, cyanobacteria said:

critique that person not the concept, because as other posters have mentioned this can be a great way to fund independent artists without relying on third party platform rent seekers

a lot of your posts on this topic are quite strange to me bc you lose your systemic critique entirely. you transition from materialist analysis to this theoretic utopian thing where you seem to be saying that in its current form crypto is bad and is just exposing and replicating the corrupt structure of capitalism but somehow there is a liberating potential if only we can escape this structure at some time in the future. but you do not appear to have any theory for how crypto will be liberated from the market, or how it will assert itself as a "socialist" (or whatever) currency within global capitalism. ultimately it appears that you are saying what lots of liberal proponents of capitalism say - the system in its current form is bad but through various reforms it can provide the conditions of greater flourishing throughout the world. it still remains unclear to me how your view differs from someone saying that the stock market could be used to generate wealth that could be more fairly distributed. or when you refer to rent seekers - there are capitalists who also dispute the social value of such predators. like, i understand you would say such predatory structures are essential to capitalism but what alternative is even remotely visible in crypto? it's currently just another speculative market vastly controlled and manipulated by exactly the kinds of capitalist goons you despise. i truly don't get it!

  On 3/16/2021 at 12:13 AM, Alcofribas said:

a lot of your posts on this topic are quite strange to me bc you lose your systemic critique entirely. you transition from materialist analysis to this theoretic utopian thing where you seem to be saying that in its current form crypto is bad and is just exposing and replicating the corrupt structure of capitalism but somehow there is a liberating potential if only we can escape this structure at some time in the future

 

but you do not appear to have any theory for how crypto will be liberated from the market, or how it will assert itself as a "socialist" (or whatever) currency within global capitalism. ultimately it appears that you are saying what lots of liberal proponents of capitalism say - the system in its current form is bad but through various reforms it can provide the conditions of greater flourishing throughout the world.

 

it still remains unclear to me how your view differs from someone saying that the stock market could be used to generate wealth that could be more fairly distributed. or when you refer to rent seekers - there are capitalists who also dispute the social value of such predators. like, i understand you would say such predatory structures are essential to capitalism but what alternative is even remotely visible in crypto? it's currently just another speculative market vastly controlled and manipulated by exactly the kinds of capitalist goons you despise. i truly don't get it!

Expand  

cryptocurrency seizes money printing capabilities and converts them from a power reserved for the state to a power emergent from thermodynamics and mathematics.  the money is defined by its users and programmable.  it has a variety of use-cases from purchasing goods to implementing near-worthless tokens or credits.  it differs from present currency in that it is decoupled from the state

is it liberatory? financially?  no, not to an extent rising above individual liberation for those who got in soon enough.  computationally? yes.  it provides algorithms that cannot exist any other way, methods of implementing infrastructure from within capitalism which can maintain itself without the intervention of institutions with capital.  the moment the algorithm was discovered, labor was invested into it by Satoshi and other programmers and soon its value, not arising from nothing or from the genius of satoshi, but from the combined labor of all of humanity conspiring towards reaching this technological point through which computation can be decentralized at the network protocol layer, removing dependencies upon ownership of hardware.  its something to behold and appreciate but be critical of

is it liberatory politically? so far no, but I strongly hold that it will play an important part in decentralized economic planning systems regarding their democratic governance and transparent auditability.  it can be used within capitalism for some purposes, it can be used within socialism for others, and in the end it will be used heavily within communism.  it can't be escaped, it can't be deleted, it can't be destroyed - all it takes is one person who understands it to reimplement it - and therefore even after communism is achieved, we must contend with the contradiction of eternal Ur-money and instead wield it for our own purposes.  it will become the machines that perform the transactions, rendering this digital money not a safe for capital to hide itself in but instead a mundane quantityless semantic and regulatory unit of production like a hydraulic fluid

This actually slaps

  On 3/16/2021 at 1:04 AM, cyanobacteria said:

 

cryptocurrency seizes money printing capabilities and converts them from a power reserved for the state to a power emergent from thermodynamics and mathematics.  the money is defined by its users and programmable.  it has a variety of use-cases from purchasing goods to implementing near-worthless tokens or credits.  it differs from present currency in that it is decoupled from the state

 

is it liberatory? financially?  no, not to an extent rising above individual liberation for those who got in soon enough.  computationally? yes.  it provides algorithms that cannot exist any other way, methods of implementing infrastructure from within capitalism which can maintain itself without the intervention of institutions with capital.  the moment the algorithm was discovered, labor was invested into it by Satoshi and other programmers and soon its value, not arising from nothing or from the genius of satoshi, but from the combined labor of all of humanity conspiring towards reaching this technological point through which computation can be decentralized at the network protocol layer, removing dependencies upon ownership of hardware.  its something to behold and appreciate but be critical of

 

is it liberatory politically? so far no, but I strongly hold that it will play an important part in decentralized economic planning systems regarding their democratic governance and transparent auditability.  it can be used within capitalism for some purposes, it can be used within socialism for others, and in the end it will be used heavily within communism.  it can't be escaped, it can't be deleted, it can't be destroyed, and therefore even after communism is achieved, we must contend with the contradiction of eternal Ur-money and instead wield it for our own purposes.  it will become the machines that perform the transactions, rendering this digital money not a safe for capital to hide itself in but instead a mundane quantityless semantic and regulatory unit of production like a hydraulic fluid

Expand  

i find it hard to really comprehend this kind of language because it's so broad. "power emergent from thermodynamics and mathematics," "money is defined by its users and programmable," "the combined labor of all of humanity conspiring towards" a point, etc. these lack analytical power to me bc in the end they are simply too vague to say anything definite.

a diamond for instance is not created by the state, it is a "power emergent" from natural processes. but diamonds are not valuable bc of this, it has no inherent relevance. its arbitrary that scarce things have value, no value emerges in some metaphysical way from a property in the abstract. crypto is a way of artificially generating something scarce, and it must remain scarce for it to have any value. the fact that thermodynamics are involved doesn't matter, it's like saying the value of printing money comes from photosynthesis. 

again, "the combined labor of all humanity" is said to "conspire" in what sense? just in the sense that the course of history has arrived at the point we are in? that is a way of saying nothing, imo. you can say that about anything. the course of all labor has conspired to this point of me posting on watmm dot com. so what? 

"it can't be escaped, it can't be deleted, it can't be destroyed." this is really weird shit, dude! this is like some kind of eschatological thinking, i don't see in any way how it describes people artificially generating money by using shitloads of computers to create a made up currency. is there any other thing in the universe about which you could accurately make such claims? this doesn't even apply to the universe itself lol. 

idk, i get almost religious vibes from this language. it's all about how crypto is this property unlike anything we've ever seen before, something out of an ancient sacred text. 

diamonds are also artificially scarce. russia has vaults full that aren't on the market because it would cause it all to crash.  a fuckn cartel too. though perhaps that's changed since this old ass episode of frontline. 

edit: and at some point artificial diamonds will be able to be produced quickly. i don't know how long it currently takes but it's possible to make a diamond. - according to google it takes 6-10 weeks to make a labgrown diamond. 

https://www.rarecarat.com/lab-grown-diamonds?gclid=Cj0KCQjwi7yCBhDJARIsAMWFScMjKf3e0Azzp80gO3Z_cOvtNa5BP_yad14QTM4kwpI0sxGWg3RTJ0QaAhPoEALw_wcB

  On 3/16/2021 at 1:33 AM, Alcofribas said:

i find it hard to really comprehend this kind of language because it's so broad. "power emergent from thermodynamics and mathematics," "money is defined by its users and programmable," "the combined labor of all of humanity conspiring towards" a point, etc. these lack analytical power to me bc in the end they are simply too vague to say anything definite.

 

a diamond for instance is not created by the state, it is a "power emergent" from natural processes. but diamonds are not valuable bc of this, it has no inherent relevance. its arbitrary that scarce things have value, no value emerges in some metaphysical way from a property in the abstract. crypto is a way of artificially generating something scarce, and it must remain scarce for it to have any value. the fact that thermodynamics are involved doesn't matter, it's like saying the value of printing money comes from photosynthesis. 

 

again, "the combined labor of all humanity" is said to "conspire" in what sense? just in the sense that the course of history has arrived at the point we are in? that is a way of saying nothing, imo. you can say that about anything. the course of all labor has conspired to this point of me posting on watmm dot com. so what? 

 

"it can't be escaped, it can't be deleted, it can't be destroyed." this is really weird shit, dude! this is like some kind of eschatological thinking, i don't see in any way how it describes people artificially generating money by using shitloads of computers to create a made up currency. is there any other thing in the universe about which you could accurately make such claims? this doesn't even apply to the universe itself lol. 

 

idk, i get almost religious vibes from this language. it's all about how crypto is this property unlike anything we've ever seen before, something out of an ancient sacred text.

Expand  

state backed fiat money printing relies upon scarcity imposed by the threat of state violence.  cryptocurrency relies upon scarcity imposed by the laws of thermodynamics and the mathematics involved to implement the sliding difficulty scale of mining and block rewards.  the money is defined by the users since the ecosystem can fork and form a new dominant chain if users want to use a different fork of bitcoin, as has happened many times.  it's programmable literally because it is a program with program execution capabilities built into transactions.  all transactions are smart contracts, simple ones that just transfer ownership of currency

diamond mining is the proper comparison to cryptocurrency block rewards since the diamond is useless in the ground.

"conspire" is a stupid word I take back.  it was rather just a general "technology stands on the shoulders of previous technology" statement

I don't think it's weird to say that it can't be destroyed and relegating mathematics to a platonic world of ideas isn't unusual, the philosophy of mathematics isn't something I'm an expert in though.  it can't be destroyed because it can always be reinvented.  obviously it can be destroyed but in practice it cannot, it will travel with humanity forever since we're not just going to forget about it, and "it" is merely an idea which can be programmed. once you understand how it works you can reimplement it.

crypto is a property unlike anything we've seen before, similar to how capital under modern capitalism is a property unlike anything we had seen before. private property rights over capital however is sustained by the threat of state violence, crypto's private property rights are sustained by mathematics.  it's irresponsible to underplay the big difference

crypto seems like a speculative investment/flipping scheme more so than a currency. it's emergent or whatever but is it something that can replace currencies the world over? where everyone in every country has money in the form of 'credits' in a cashless society?  wouldn't this mean just trading up to a new master?  a mega corporation of tech conglomerates that run the financial world? 

i guess if it did go that route would nations vanish in some way? seems cyberpunk and would take Neal Stephenson to explain it to me.. but we're a ways away from something like that i think as the tech and understanding of bitcoin isn't understood by many people relative to people who understand actual cash

  On 3/16/2021 at 1:43 AM, ignatius said:

diamonds are also artificially scarce

yeah, my point tho was that the value is arbitrary, whether it's based on real or artificial scarcity doesn't really matter. i also chose them to illustrate how the natural processes that result in their appearance on da planet erf do not determine this value.

and zeff, i still think there are so many grand claims in your posts on this that i just keep hitting a wall with them. why are we even discussing platonic ideas lol. 

i guess i'll prob just keep thinking there is no such thing as a technology that will come in and save us from ourselves. i don't really care about the conceptual staying power of crypto, it'll most likely just be used by idiot rich people who will continue to do what they're always doing: destroying civilization to fill their accounts with the intoxicating power of ever-accumulating commas. 

  On 3/16/2021 at 2:02 AM, Alcofribas said:

i guess i'll prob just keep thinking there is no such thing as a technology that will come in and save us from ourselves. i don't really care about the conceptual staying power of crypto, it'll most likely just be used by idiot rich people who will continue to do what they're always doing: destroying civilization to fill their accounts with the intoxicating power of ever-accumulating commas. 

 

im by no means claiming this.  i'm rather claiming that it can be a useful tool for decentralized cybernetic socialism and communism because of its decentralized consensus building capabilities without third party intermediaries, the original value proposition of bitcoin to begin with

  On 3/16/2021 at 2:02 AM, ignatius said:

crypto seems like a speculative investment/flipping scheme more so than a currency. it's emergent or whatever but is it something that can replace currencies the world over? where everyone in every country has money in the form of 'credits' in a cashless society?  wouldn't this mean just trading up to a new master?  a mega corporation of tech conglomerates that run the financial world? 

 

i guess if it did go that route would nations vanish in some way? seems cyberpunk and would take Neal Stephenson to explain it to me.. but we're a ways away from something like that i think as the tech and understanding of bitcoin isn't understood by many people relative to people who understand actual cash

Expand  

in its present form of course.  but if states decide to make their own "cryptocurrencies" it will be bastardization of the pure ideal of bitcoin itself, and a fundamentally different type of technology to the point where it no longer relates to the original.  this is very likely to happen under capitalism and would in no way be liberatory, in fact it would be very bad and entrench global surveillance of financial behavior by private firms contracted by the governments even more deeply

i don't dislike cryptocurrency on principle, i just dislike that we live in a world where a guy getting into crypto for no other reason than so that he can more easily obtain dmt off the deepweb eventually results in him being able to purchase a private island off the coast of spain

zeff, answer this one question: where is pee stored?

  On 3/16/2021 at 2:37 AM, Cryptowen said:

i don't dislike cryptocurrency on principle, i just dislike that we live in a world where a guy getting into crypto for no other reason than so that he can more easily obtain dmt off the deepweb eventually results in him being able to purchase a private island off the coast of spain

p much

Cryptoart (and cryptocurrencies) are built on artificial scarcity and are a massive drain on resources.  What a waste of time and not a good look for RDJ. 

https://everestpipkin.medium.com/but-the-environmental-issues-with-cryptoart-1128ef72e6a3

I dont know anything but it seems like rich idiots are buying this (or rich smart guys doing some "creative" money work). So if you have name recognition that hasnt been completely blasted - just shit something out and you can get some extra cash!   i think being an electronic artist helps out too. I feel like if AE made a single tone/note NFT it would go for thousands as well. 

  On 3/16/2021 at 3:46 PM, adiscoball said:

Cryptoart (and cryptocurrencies) are built on artificial scarcity and are a massive drain on resources.  What a waste of time and not a good look for RDJ. 

https://everestpipkin.medium.com/but-the-environmental-issues-with-cryptoart-1128ef72e6a3

Thank you, I read all of that. Cleared a few things up in my head 

the critique of cryptocurrencies would be great if it was extended beyond them and applied to the real issues.  how about critiquing capitalism itself rather than individual manifestations of market behavior surrounding buyables within it?  how about critiquing power generation rather than the incentivization of consumers to use it in environmentally damaging ways through market pricing and the requirement to have money to survive creating a capital accumulation oriented mindset in the minds of the people?

the only world where money will no longer cause damage in the multitudes of forms it takes on is a world where money is transcended as a requirement of human life and relegated to the trash heap of irrelevant past technologies like cuneiform management of sheep transactions.

this requires communism to be achieved which such liberal critiques of cryptocurrencies as individual market agent behavior shaming will never conclude, rather than being confused by the siren song of liberal market reform banning cryptocurrencies

Cyrpto is no different than any other speculative currency. NFT's on the other hand, IMO, are an even further abstraction that has even less to do with reality. With crypto, I can buy a pizza. NFT's are like a school bell going off telling us that class is over. Not much left after this. I'm also critiquing power structures and capitalism, but I'm also also having fun pointing out how completely detached from all reality spending 6 million on a jpeg is.

  On 3/16/2021 at 7:28 PM, ReVoodle said:

Cyrpto is no different than any other speculative currency. NFT's on the other hand, IMO, are an even further abstraction that has even less to do with reality. With crypto, I can buy a pizza. NFT's are like a school bell going off telling us that class is over. Not much left after this. I'm also critiquing power structures and capitalism, but I'm also also having fun pointing out how completely detached from all reality spending 6 million on a jpeg is.

that's not a critique of NFTs that's a critique of decadent bourgeois economic behavior

if i had a nickel for every time zeff typed the words bourgeois/communism/socialism/seize the means of production/stalin is my dad