https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/plastics-industry-insiders-reveal-the-truth-about-recycling/

I'd always heard a similar thing happened in the late 60s when plastics industry interests backed the original "Keep America Beautiful" pro-recycling PR campaign to direct public support away from a single-use packaging ban, but I couldn't find a good source on that in the 45 seconds I was willing to spend Googling.

  On 3/21/2022 at 6:14 PM, ignatius said:

if there's ever a reckoning i hope we through the industrial assholes who keep forcing plastic onto everything into volcanos. 

I'm against plastics in general but the reality is that there is no economically-viable alternative that the public will accept.  Nobody wants to see this stuff clogging up landfills or choking waterways but most people also don't want to pay the extra cost (sometimes substantial) it would take to make the products they buy more environmentally-friendly.  We dug ourselves into this hole very early on and we're at the point now where it would be difficult to break our addiction to plastics.

I wouldn't say that anybody is forcing plastic onto consumers.  Unfortunately, it ultimately allowed businesses to create things at a lower price, and the public ate that up.  We obviously can't count on businesses to do what's morally or environmentally right, so what's the solution?  Enough people have to be willing to pay more for a better alternative, at least in the short run, or there need to be subsidies / penalties for producing plastic-free / rich products.

  On 3/21/2022 at 9:54 PM, randomsummer said:

I'm against plastics in general but the reality is that there is no economically-viable alternative that the public will accept.  Nobody wants to see this stuff clogging up landfills or choking waterways but most people also don't want to pay the extra cost (sometimes substantial) it would take to make the products they buy more environmentally-friendly.  We dug ourselves into this hole very early on and we're at the point now where it would be difficult to break our addiction to plastics.

I wouldn't say that anybody is forcing plastic onto consumers.  Unfortunately, it ultimately allowed businesses to create things at a lower price, and the public ate that up.  We obviously can't count on businesses to do what's morally or environmentally right, so what's the solution?  Enough people have to be willing to pay more for a better alternative, at least in the short run, or there need to be subsidies / penalties for producing plastic-free / rich products.

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there's a lot of great things about plastic and its uses but it's gone so far beyond the necessary to the lazy convenience of a thing. 

we certainly have backed ourselves into a corner or were articulated into a corner. or both. petroleum is what makes many types of plastic possible. 

there are alternatives for many products.. paper, cans, glass.. but yeah..  countless things where it makes absolutely no sense for it to be in any thing other than plastic.  all kinds of medical devices etc. 

but there's so many things that are just stupid. and there are things that are only slighty more expensive in non-plastic form.. coffee cup lids etc.. and the prices would come down if those things were scaled up. 

single use plastics are such a huge issue. take out containers and all the various disposable things. 

of course business won't do what's 'right' unless public opinion sways them and it doesn't effect their bottom lines which is why legislation is the key to making it happen and holding people accountable. 

commercial fishing nets and gear are actually the largest waste material in the oceans... but i don't think they break down in the same way as plastics??? i don't know.. 

there's new composites emerging made from all kinds of natural materials that break down a lot quicker and aren't toxic. truly biodegradable.  though i'm sure they're not suitable for all situations. 

regardless, at some point, 'economically viable' won't be the measuring stick and it won't matter.  maybe plasma gasification will one day hit the sweet spot and generate net energy by turning all the human garbage into gas. 

there's some docs about plastics and the industry around it and how it works but i can't think of the names right now????  

edit: also regarding forcing plastic on us.. i'm thinking about things planned to be made poorly out of plastic so they wear out and the consumer has to buy another one.  and all the little ways people get their cut of a  thing because someone makes a plastic back that goes into a thing that is wrapped into another plastic thing.. packaging. 

Totally agree.  It's unfortunate that it seems to be in our nature to crash headlong into things without thinking about or caring about long-term effects too much.  We'll have to try to "evolve" into new ways of thinking or future generations will face many hardships that were created by past generations.

  Quote

To Waste or Not to Waste: Questioning Potential Health Risks of Micro- and Nanoplastics with a Focus on Their Ingestion and Potential Carcinogenicity

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12403-022-00470-8

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on average we ingest five grams of MPs per week per person (roughly corresponding to the mass of a credit card) depending on the region in which we live, our lifestyle, and diet

  On 3/24/2022 at 1:09 PM, iococoi said:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12403-022-00470-8

yeah it's crazy. read a similar article/study a while ago.. might have posted it here.. idk.. about how any plastic that gets above room temperature or even warms some then cools again (water bottles, baby bottles etc)suffers some degradation and micro plastics will depart the inside of the bottle when we drink from it. 

so, pretty much every plastic drinking container is constantly poisoning us. "microwave safe" plastic dishes etc.. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time

  On 3/24/2022 at 8:16 PM, Berk said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time

 

You beat me to it. Inconceivable horrors.

  On 3/21/2022 at 8:44 PM, TubularCorporation said:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/plastics-industry-insiders-reveal-the-truth-about-recycling/

 

I'd always heard a similar thing happened in the late 60s when plastics industry interests backed the original "Keep America Beautiful" pro-recycling PR campaign to direct public support away from a single-use packaging ban, but I couldn't find a good source on that in the 45 seconds I was willing to spend Googling.

Lobbying is just corruption. Reactionary as it gets. (But because we're westeners we get our own words!! We're not immigrants we're 'expats', it's not corruption it's 'lobbying')!

  On 3/24/2022 at 8:16 PM, Berk said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time

 

jokes on them. already have cancer. gonna go eat some plastic!

  On 3/25/2022 at 12:18 AM, milkface said:

You beat me to it. Inconceivable horrors.

 

Lobbying is just corruption. Reactionary as it gets. (But because we're westeners we get our own words!! We're not immigrants we're 'expats', it's not corruption it's 'lobbying')!

The owner of the 6th largest recycling company in the USA used to come in where I worked back around 2013.  He was nice enough, but very much an oldsschool free market Republican who had moved from, I think, a dry cleaning chain over to recycling because the profit margin was better.  

  Quote

Microplastic pollution has been detected in human blood for the first time, with scientists finding the tiny particles in almost 80% of the people tested.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time

extrapolating for human carelessness, and considering the effect on sterility, we may see a population collapse starting this century

  On 3/25/2022 at 4:20 AM, trying to be less rude said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time

 

extrapolating for human carelessness, and considering the effect on sterility, we may see a population collapse starting this century

OMG they made Children of Men real!!!!!

I wonder if little bits that come off of your synthetic fiber clothing are considered microplastics.  I mean, they're definitely synthetic polymers, and just take a look at all the little fibers that your clothes shed.  It's probably not a stretch to think that those bits are falling into your food or getting rustled up in the air that you breathe.  Might have to start wearing a mask when I change the lint trap in my dryer.

  On 3/27/2022 at 1:55 PM, randomsummer said:

I wonder if little bits that come off of your synthetic fiber clothing are considered microplastics.

Fleece garments are the worst.

  On 3/27/2022 at 2:03 PM, dcom said:

Fleece garments are the worst.

I figured as much.  And damn, that article is from six years ago...

So what's a viable alternative?  Natural fibers?  Cotton is still a polymer, albeit a natural one (cellulose-based).  Do we even know that natural polymers won't also cause negative health and environmental effects?  So what, then, leather breeches or nudity??

  On 3/27/2022 at 2:19 PM, randomsummer said:

Do we even know that natural polymers won't also cause negative health and environmental effects?

Here's a good, more recent article - What to Do About Microfibres in Clothing. Plastics, and by proxy microplastics/fibres are a wicked problem, more details in The Magnificent 7 Elements of plastics as a ‘wicked problem’.

''life in plastic, its fantastic''

Don’t tear me apart for an honest question here: What did all of the disposable masks do for us and micro plastics in us? 

  On 3/27/2022 at 3:48 PM, Upset man said:

Don’t tear me apart for an honest question here: What did all of the disposable masks do for us and micro plastics in us? 

Five things you should know about disposable masks and plastic pollution (UN News). Yeah, it's bad, and the simplest of Google searches on the subject will give you more than enough reference. I've been miserable here in Finland as the winter snow has melted and exposed the amount of disposable masks people have simply discarded in the environment, although trash bins are almost everywhere. It's gaining on my main hate environmental waste item, cigarette butts, also a huge source of microplastics.

Personally i have been double masking with reusable triple layer instead because if this.

  On 3/27/2022 at 4:15 PM, dcom said:

Five things you should know about disposable masks and plastic pollution (UN News). Yeah, it's bad, and the simplest of Google searches on the subject will give you more than enough reference. I've been miserable here in Finland as the winter snow has melted and exposed the amount of disposable masks people have simply discarded in the environment, although trash bins are almost everywhere. It's gaining on my main hate environmental waste item, cigarette butts, also a huge source of microplastics.

Yeah they end up everywhere and that only compounds an already dire situation…

I just wondered to what extent all these masks made out of allegedly “safe” polypropylene increase the micro plastics found in our bodies since they’re found everywhere else.  I’ve seen SO many people using single use masks obviously way more than once and just wondered what if any effect this has as they degrade.

somehow missed this.. haven't watched this show in a long time. this is from last year

  On 4/1/2022 at 11:03 AM, prdctvsm said:

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not just the blood but the lungs too!

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/06/microplastics-found-deep-in-lungs-of-living-people-for-first-time

  Quote

 

Microplastic pollution has been discovered lodged deep in the lungs of living people for the first time. The particles were found in almost all the samples analysed.

The scientists said microplastic pollution was now ubiquitous across the planet, making human exposure unavoidable and meaning “there is an increasing concern regarding the hazards” to health.

 

Samples were taken from tissue removed from 13 patients undergoing surgery and microplastics were found in 11 cases. The most common particles were polypropylene, used in plastic packaging and pipes, and PET, used in bottles. Two previous studies had found microplastics at similarly high rates in lung tissue taken during autopsies.

People were already known to breathe in the tiny particles, as well as consuming them via food and water. Workers exposed to high levels of microplastics are also known to have developed disease.

 

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