Linear vs Non-Linear way of making music

Damn! 24 hours.

Damn!

Thx for this guys.

did a nice thing in Max 8. I liked it https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OSaEA8WAXalcmjCZCP3naW5eKuu_nSIr/view?usp=sharing

  On 4/10/2022 at 4:07 PM, sheatheman said:

https://williamfields.bandcamp.com/album/fieldsos
 

Anyone heard this? Deep learning genre-generated music. Honestly pretty crazy. 

No deep-learning in Bill’s stuff. Super clever algorithms at work though, and « curated » with fantastic taste. I love FieldsOS but I have a soft spot for Fluidity.

Some really quality posts in here! 

Did this new thing int Max. https://www.notion.so/animanoir/9f350cfb494049ca9b73c0a616da5178

  On 4/18/2022 at 6:20 AM, logakght said:

Did this new thing int Max. https://www.notion.so/animanoir/9f350cfb494049ca9b73c0a616da5178

cool. sounds like something you can develop. probably a bunch of tracks in that patch. 

  On 4/15/2022 at 7:57 PM, Summon Dot E X E said:

>name tracks after a variety of genres
>it's all IDM
What did William mean by this?

I skipped through the album. Didn't listen to 24hrs of material yet. Pretty interesting stuff. I would rather listen to an edited down version of the best parts, as even a single, hour-long track is difficult to consume, let alone 24 of them. I get that it was a radio show, though.

I will put it on while I'm working to get a better feel for it.

Pretty amazing that it's at all listenable.

Soon we will have the musical version of DALL·E. Then how will human musicians differentiate themselves?

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i put it on and just let it go. i forget which hour i'm listening to. i haven't listened in a while though. i remember i'd listen at work and a lot of it would catch my ear and i'd take a peak at my ipod to see which theme or whatever. i found that's a good way to experience it for me. 

i think him saying "it's all IDM" is a way of saying it's all experimental music. 

same energy

I realize this adds very little to this thread but I've achieved what I think is non random non linear by simply using multiple sequencers.

A good example is MI Grids. Its a drum sequencer with 3 outs: Kick, snare, and hat. Its got a bunch of patterns programmed into it that you can sweep between. So take the kick and snare and route them to a kick and snare. But then take your hat and route it to a different sequencer's clock. Now this second sequencer has a non linear non random deterministic clock. Feed that to a bassline or something. As you mutate grids, the patterns for your kicks and snares and bassline will mutate and evolve. 

Now multiple this concept to even more sequencers and logic modules.

  On 4/18/2022 at 11:16 PM, acid1 said:

I realize this adds very little to this thread but I've achieved what I think is non random non linear by simply using multiple sequencers.

A good example is MI Grids. Its a drum sequencer with 3 outs: Kick, snare, and hat. Its got a bunch of patterns programmed into it that you can sweep between. So take the kick and snare and route them to a kick and snare. But then take your hat and route it to a different sequencer's clock. Now this second sequencer has a non linear non random deterministic clock. Feed that to a bassline or something. As you mutate grids, the patterns for your kicks and snares and bassline will mutate and evolve. 

Now multiple this concept to even more sequencers and logic modules.

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Sam and Bob started with arpeggiators into arpeggiators and this is pretty similar. 

Successful complexity can come from controlling a few simple variables in an intelligent way. 

https://twitter.com/geosminu/status/1516248394250993671

found some interesting ways to manipulate noise. Btw gonna post sometimes experiments, bear with me, sooner or later I'll share something more developed

https://www.notion.so/animanoir/6a3533f5ea2d430e939b5f735db5d015

The thing with Max MSP is that it's good for making a patch but only for that except if u create your own effects and use it with Ableton.
I really enjoy the non-linear style but it is best for the experimental approach. 
It is difficult to have "flow" when u going full random.. 

The best way would be something in between because I prefer some sort of structure.For example: SunVox: There you have your MaxMSP-patching style but also a tracker style sequencer with effect commands and a nice timeline.

Max for live is also a nice combination but Abletons interface is awful. 

  On 4/20/2022 at 6:04 AM, cern said:

The thing with Max MSP is that it's good for making a patch but only for that except if u create your own effects and use it with Ableton.
I really enjoy the non-linear style but it is best for the experimental approach. 
It is difficult to have "flow" when u going full random.. 

The best way would be something in between because I prefer some sort of structure.For example: SunVox: There you have your MaxMSP-patching style but also a tracker style sequencer with effect commands and a nice timeline.

Max for live is also a nice combination but Abletons interface is awful. 

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yaeh. I mostly use Max to toy around and indeed randomize stuff that I want to sound "complex", but mostly I record stuff and try to sequence it to create a more narrated product. Tho Max is a lot of fun

  On 4/20/2022 at 6:04 AM, cern said:

The best way would be something in between because I prefer some sort of structure.

Bitwig. Crazy flexible and nice to look at, the yoga pants of DAWs IMO

  On 4/20/2022 at 6:04 AM, cern said:

Max for live is also a nice combination but Abletons interface is awful. 

Hmmmm….

let me read that again…

…what?

  On 4/28/2022 at 6:11 AM, sheatheman said:

Hmmmm….

let me read that again…

…what?

Sorry my English is not so good. 

Max is a program, Ableton is also a program. Do you understand this? 
You don't need to use Max as standalone..  You can use Max inside of Ableton Live. Do you understand this?

What I don't like is the layout/graphic/interface whatever you call it in Ableton: Piano roll, sequencer layout, effect panel etc.. 

If you still don't understand me then I suggest you stop quoting me. 

linear or not, who givesafaq if the music is good

Well yeah... but the thread is about linear vs non-linear...

What do you guys think ae mean when they talk about conditionals? I'm imagining rules that are something along the lines of, is sample A plays and then sample B plays one beat later, then sample C plays 2 beats after that, but with enough of these rules that you can set of cascades of sound. No idea how max works though

I've always assumed pre written choices or rules. 

It's basically simple Boolean logic, isn't it? If - then - else constructions.

On the signal level, it can be as simple as a comparator that sends out a trigger once the amplitude goes above or below a threshold. Squarepusher mentions this technique in an old, German interview about Go Plastic:

  Quote

On the Orville I built a synthesizer which permanently changes its signal flow, and partially also the modules, depending on logic circuits, levels or modulation sources. For instance, the tones that sound like a mix between delay and extreme time stretching were realised with a peak detector circuit. As soon as a loop falls between a threshold, the last segment of the loop is repeated, until the threshold is exceeded again. The length of the segment is decided by an average between level drop over time and the modulation sources. It would be too much to explain the algorithms and the logic elements, but you can hear it all on the album.

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Boolean conditions are easy to implement in the modular world (including Max), with AND/OR modules, inverters, comparators, clock dividers, counters, ADSR envelopes generating End Of Cycle triggers, etc.

  On 4/28/2022 at 11:14 AM, cern said:

Sorry my English is not so good. 

Max is a program, Ableton is also a program. Do you understand this? 
You don't need to use Max as standalone..  You can use Max inside of Ableton Live. Do you understand this?

What I don't like is the layout/graphic/interface whatever you call it in Ableton: Piano roll, sequencer layout, effect panel etc.. 

If you still don't understand me then I suggest you stop quoting me. 

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Your English is great, I just have never heard anyone say ableton UI is terrible before. Maybe it’s not your thing, but I think it’s kind of indisputable that ableton has one of the fastest UIs of all time. 

tony obr posts some cool stuff that seems relevant to this thread. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cc4ep1PggJz/