The controversy surrounding Xtal

How many millions of dollars did Microsoft pay Brian Eno to make a 3 second audio logo that isn't any better than some of that stuff?

I'm a Bruton Music type, myself.

Well I stand corrected but I still think that they were either consciously or unconsciously taking off from it. At that time in history there was a massive Star Wars craze going on at least as I remember it.

Cobain's favorite film was Rumble Fish

  On 9/27/2022 at 8:29 AM, marf said:

Cobain's favorite film was Rumble Fish

 

 

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It does sound very similar but I’m sure Kurt kind of made amends for stuff like this…

The sample is a significant part of the track, especially as it's played in a mostly unaltered form... but I wouldn't consider it stolen right off. There were way worse examples from that era, everybody played by different rules... #xtalgate 

edit: I wouldn't judge Jeffries' comments out of context as people are being unnecessarily disrespectful to him online. I was personally shocked by how much that original sample made the track - the twinkly keys thing in the background was an ethereal experience when first hearing the track in my teens. 50% writing credits sound more than fair to me.

  On 9/27/2022 at 11:23 AM, Grain Bastard said:

It does sound very similar but I’m sure Kurt kind of made amends for stuff like this…

Kurt was a lovely dude. I regularly think about him and how such a waste it's been. He had so much more in him.  Depression wasn't really talked about back then. 

I remember seeing this comment on the video - surely you don't get royalties if it's off a soundbank CD right?

  On 9/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, marf said:

Kurt was a lovely dude. I regularly think about him and how such a waste it's been. He had so much more in him.  Depression wasn't really talked about back then. 

I remember at the time I didn't like him at all. A mopey, mega depressed, oddball junkie. In the last 10 years or so I've done a complete reverse on that. I can see he was deeply sensitive, obviously highly artistic and misunderstood, and delved deep into drug addiction because he couldn't handle it all. And of course like most of them who ended up dead, never had strong loyal friends and family to protect him from the parasites, bloodsuckers and vultures that always seemed close by. Kurt went way too soon and I also wonder about what music he could of created. He didn’t leave a big catalogue of music behind.

I mentioned Louie Louie because Dave Marsh's social history of Louie Louie that was published in the early 90s has a whole chater making a really strong case for Teen Spirit being the latest (at the time) high profile variant of Louie Louie.

It's one of the best music books I've read, definitely recommended.

To be little on RDJ's side here.. 

I don't think he created Xtal and like "This track is gonna be put on a album called Selected Ambient Works and it's gonna be a massive hit, fuck the original creator"

He sampled Nannou's sisters voice in Drukqs and that made Nannou upset after they broke up. 

Everyone gets pissed off when they are sampled successfully without credits.
I swear nothing would happened if X-tal was another SC-Dump track  

 

I'm fully on RDJ's side, but  do think that the proper thing to do here is to pay the back fees to license the orginal track even though the people who made it are acting like whiny pissbabies about it.

I also think IP law for media has to be radically overhauled so that shit like this isn't an issue anymore.  Something that scales in a way where people can make sample based music mor eor less without legal restriction but the people whose music is sampled can also be compensated proportionately I don't think full sharing of songwriting credit is anything like proportional, but at the same time if Timbaland produces a massive hit that's literally just a multibar loop of your work with a few overdubs you should be getting a good healthy payout for that.  I think you can make a good faith interpretation of the current laws that says they are pointing in that direction, but they don't work right and never really have.  An implementation of something like Youtube's content ID system that was actually fair (actually redistributing revenue proportionately instead of diverting 100% of it to the company that owns the rights to the song you used a 10 secondclip from in a 2 hour video that clearly ffalls under fair use, for example) could do a lot, but I'm not super optimistic about it actually happening.

But as it is now I'm sympathetic to both parties to some degree, unless the original rights holders asked for/got MORE than the original licensing terms for their track dictated, in which case fuck em.

And while I'm at it, all that pre-war Disney IP needs to be public domain.  Fuck Disney, a lot of this is on them.  High budget, live action Mickey/Goofy/Pluto erotic thriller with A-list celebrity cast in Cats 2019-style CGI makeup in my lifetime, please. 

  On 9/29/2022 at 3:05 PM, cern said:

Everyone gets pissed off when they are sampled successfully without credits.
I swear nothing would happened if X-tal was another SC-Dump track 

I think this is legit in both cases. I don't think people should be restricted from using samples in their work (unless it's a clear cut violation of consent or something) but I also think that if something DOES blow up it changes the balance of power and ethical imperative for transparency and compensation.

It's about the money ofc 

  On 9/29/2022 at 3:46 PM, cern said:

It's about the money ofc 

It's a monster hit, what would you do? I'm just surprised Jeffries & co found out about it now, I assure you they've not been "waiting for 30 years"... 

  On 9/30/2022 at 12:48 AM, chim said:

It's a monster hit, what would you do? I'm just surprised Jeffries & co found out about it now, I assure you they've not been "waiting for 30 years"... 

Question is if they even made copy rights that piece of music before it got into the library 
Yes I know about moral rights etc but we all know that's plain BS..

if people like Jeffries is gonna make a big deal of it (because of money ofc) he need to claim his rights from the start. 
If he gonna try to sue RDJ by now I would love to see ol Jeffrieboy facing Warp + RJD's army of lawyers. 
En svensk tiger lär veta vem som vinner. 

And like I said I don't think RDJ was thinking it was a big deal, Its little bit late now like you said. 
His Youtube comments is even 2 years old. I didn't saw it until now and it's a interesting topic 

 

  On 9/30/2022 at 1:14 AM, cern said:

En svensk tiger lär veta vem som vinner. 
 

This argument is about as 1980s' as disrespecting AIDS patients.

This reminds me of that scene in Amadeus where Salieri plays a little nice tune when welcoming him to meet the king, then Mozart comes in, hears it and plays it and turns into into something very different and a lot better. Then he says something like "It's a funny little tune but resulted in some nice ideas". 

Also, it's library music meant to be sampled isn't it? Or am I wrong?

Also 50% is way too much for the contribution. Maybe like 10%. Gees.

  On 9/26/2022 at 10:03 PM, zero said:

what a weird turn of events. 1-2 year old youtube comments discussing an Xtal sample that has been known about for how long now? I read through some of those comments, and this Steve Jeffries guy says he didn't find out that Richard sampled this until 2016. and that it took 6 years to get co-writing credit for...and then I'm guessing some royalty payment. what the hell? if he's in the music industry, or publishing (as his youtube comments indicate), then how the hell didn't he know about this? Xtal is probably one of Aphex's most well known tunes...unless I just live in a vacuum. this seems to me to be all about money, not some right vs. wrong argument.  

yep

  On 10/3/2022 at 12:51 AM, Brisbot said:

This reminds me of that scene in Amadeus where Salieri plays a little nice tune when welcoming him to meet the king, then Mozart comes in, hears it and plays it and turns into into something very different and a lot better. Then he says something like "It's a funny little tune but resulted in some nice ideas". 

Also, it's library music meant to be sampled isn't it? Or am I wrong?

Also 50% is way too much for the contribution. Maybe like 10%. Gees.

 

yep

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this is somewhat before my time, or at least a time when i would have been old enough to know anything, but yeah i always thought library music was kind of the sample cd of yesteryear. i.e. the intention was to maybe get those things and dub them into your shitty tv show or radio programme

  On 9/29/2022 at 12:46 PM, beerwolf said:

I remember at the time I didn't like him at all. A mopey, mega depressed, oddball junkie. In the last 10 years or so I've done a complete reverse on that. I can see he was deeply sensitive, obviously highly artistic and misunderstood, and delved deep into drug addiction because he couldn't handle it all. And of course like most of them who ended up dead, never had strong loyal friends and family to protect him from the parasites, bloodsuckers and vultures that always seemed close by. Kurt went way too soon and I also wonder about what music he could of created. He didn’t leave a big catalogue of music behind.

At the time I was into different stuff. Didnt pay much attention to Nirvana.

I look back and love his shit now. I think heart shaped box might be one of my favorite rocks songs ever, 

I agree with Steve Jeffries, who isn't my dad. Aphex needs to pay up, the thieving cunt. 50% of everything. This Steve Jeffries guy probably has a family to support, also did I mention he's not my dad? Aphex should pay him regardless of whose dad he is (not mine)

  On 10/3/2022 at 11:11 PM, Amen Warrior said:

I agree with Steve Jeffries, who isn't my dad. Aphex needs to pay up, the thieving cunt. 50% of everything. This Steve Jeffries guy probably has a family to support, also did I mention he's not my dad? Aphex should pay him regardless of whose dad he is (not mine)

                              i have to ask, is steve j. your dad?

No, what gave you that idea?