Fix teh burger?

  On 2/12/2024 at 11:52 PM, cwmbrancity said:

 

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bought this book recently and it is seriously fantastic

@Milwaukeeeee you'd probably love it as much as I do

  On 2/23/2024 at 10:40 PM, luke viia said:

bought this book recently and it is seriously fantastic

@Milwaukeeeee you'd probably love it as much as I do

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Seems so cool, always wanted to know more about the Tarot. The origins of it probably from Egypt, just like Christianism itself

demn that guy should've been high AF the moment the photo was taken. Some Yogananda lore

fat esoteric post ahead, sorry for multy replying but it is big nice esoteric info worth being digested and shared

After those vids, who obviously need time, I want to share this fragment I read days ago, from the 4th way tradition

"..Can you help me a little more about intentional suffering

Bennet: What have you yourself understood about it?

I seem to have so much involuntary suffering to cope with, that I feel there is not much left over

Bennet: There are two kinds of invouluntary suffering. One kind of involuntary suffering is everything that comes from my self love, my own egoism, when I am offended, when I am worried, when I am jealous. All of that kind of suffering is worthless. It does nothing for me, it does nothing for anyone. it destroys my possibilities. I must have no truck with it. if there is any force in me, I must repudiate such suffering as that. There is also suffering that is of a different kind, the inevitable suffering of life, physical pain, or bereavement, loss; the real troubles of those for whom we care. We have to see that this kind of suffering does not really play such a big part in our lives on the whole, as the first one, that is the suffering which is quite useless. This second kind of suffering we tend very much to aggravate by imagination, by picturing ourselves that things will happen before they happen; by self-pity. If we can be free from those negative aspects of suffering, some unavoidable suffering would still remain, and in our attitude towards it, there would be something of value to ourselves. But this is quite different from intentional suffering. You must understand that intentional suffering is something that must be earned. It is suffering that I must attain. it is something that I must be worthy of. I cannot have suffering by saying that I am prepared to suffer. it is not only being prepared to suffer, I must have the understanding of how this suffering is to come to me.

You have read IN SEARCH OF THE MIRACULOUS? You remember in one of the early chapters there is a conversation about immortality? Someone asked a question of MR. Gurdjieff about immortality and the soul, and he spoke of what in man can become immortal. There is nothing in his physical body, his organism, in his personality generally, all that he calls 'himself' which can survive even the accidental shocks of life, let alone such a big thing as death. Something must hold together very strongly, with great inner intensity, if it is to have the possibility of surviving and existing without a physical body. And that something can only be formed by a process, a gradual process.
You remember how he sopke about ir. He compared it to a crucible of powders, which has nothing to hold it together. When it is poured out, everything is spilled. but by one means only, can it be changed from just a mixture of powders into an ingot, fused into this by heat: that is fire. Only fire can change, and make something of a man with such an intensity of inner togetherness, that will survive anything, either in this life or out of it. And that fire is intentional suffering, nothing else. So what do you want to know? What is it you want to ask me?

I think that has answere the question, at any rate at this stage

Bennet: On the contrary, it should have aroused your curiosity!

Miss R: Couldn't you go on a little more about how it is to be earned?

Bennet: In BEELZEBUB it is illustrated in many ways. Meritorious beings are said to have occupied themselves with such and such an undertaking and achieved it through their concious labour and intentional suffering. Belcultassi or Makary Kronbernkzion, and other types of men who in one way or another worked for the attainment of some great aim. But if we take it in something which is closer to ourselves, there is this difficulty: that if I answer simply that intentional suffering is the result of work, you will not understand because you do not know what work is. But there are some kinds of experience that prhaps you can enter into. you know how it is with an artist. An artist who really lives for one particular perfection of experience and expression, knows that it is unattainable. He approaches the moment of expression with this agony of knowing that it is impossible for him to be what he intends to be. Whatever he achieves, he knows that is nothing in comaprisson with the quality he aspires to. The more he works, the more he refines his art and purifies it, the more he feels the impossibility of achieving what he whises. This is how the intentional suffering comes. He knows that he must suffer if he does this. He knows that the very standard he sets himself must make him suffer. If you understand this, you will understand something of the quality that belongs to intentional suffering, and why it can only come as a result of work on oneself. It cannot come by any other way. The same is true of a saint. If you read the lives of the Saints, you see clearly that the more they work on themselves, the more remote they feel from what they are trying to achieve. Looked at from outside, it seems almost morbid self-accusation; with such a refinement of purity in life, how can there be such a sense of sin? there seems to be something almost pathological about it; but, on the contrary, it is very sane. You see afterwards how, when you see objectively at such lifes, it is nonsense to speak of it as pathological. A few days ago, I was reading by chance an extract from John Bunyan's autobiography. If you read that, you see for yourself that his intense wish to achieve purity of life, and his real struggle day and night to find how he could do it, was accompanied at the same time by terrible inner suffering, although he knew quite well that he was making demands fo himself that were far beyond what externally he might be expected to make. Then you see how little by little this is transformed into an inner assurance that there is a Higher Force, there is a power of Grace that could help him. But that can only come when something if formed which is able to recieve it. Not without that. Intentional suffering is the only way to Conscience.

Can you help me about the struggle against negative emotions, beacuse it seems that just as I think I am getting somewhere about this, the whole thing falls down worse than ever, and this brings such a lot of involuntary suffering, all the way along? it is involuntary suffering for me to struggle, and then again when I fall. I have got it wrong somehow. Can you help me?

Bennet: You do not dig deep enough. There is only one cure for negative emotions. That is, to see oneself. So long as I do not see myself, no force exist that can neutralize my egoism, because it remains untouched by whatever I do. negative emotions have power so long as we do not see from whence they come. As soon as I see from whence they come, this snuff them out. Because something else takes thier place, that is the experience of seeing that it is from that in me that this reaction is coming. It is the only thing that is strong enough to kill the negative emotion. It is a very big thing.

Is that what is meant by 'the watcher at the gate' ?

Bennet: I do not know. I am not a Theosophist. Why do you speak like that? What matters is that you should experience it. It does not matter what it is called. You should try to ask yourself: by what you can you possibly be advanced by asking that question? You start by asking a question which is important, which comes from something in you which has perhaps experienced your helpesness in struggling with negative emotions. I try to show you the way to go to find how you can dig deeper, and then you speak about something very superficial: that is some formula which has happened to come by association into your mind. Why? i could tell you more, but you have shut the gate." ...

Fragment from talk No 11: 9th April, 1951 of "Denison House Talks- Questions and Answers 1950-1. 1954" by J.G. Bennet

https://www.familyofmessiah.org/single-post/gevurah-the-strength-within

https://www.josephazize.com/2019/03/22/bennett-on-the-relationship-between-sex-and-spiritual-development-part-six/

won’t embed fully but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCqu2KPKg4

  On 8/12/2024 at 1:15 PM, Milwaukeeeee said:

I understand your view, I know it sounds foolish af if we solely take it through the optic of purely mechanicist science and hard rationalism, of course from that perspective all of it seems like pure lunacy. I dont deny science, I completely accept it although it has become short for me to explain other existential questions. I've been sneacking heavily into gnosticism, esoterics traditions and all of that stuff for many years now, to try to grasp and understand some aspects of human nature, spirituality, conciousness, the gist of the laws of this universe, the purpose of the human race etc, what could be "god", what are souls, spirits, etc.. to get a different view of the one that tells this is just an impressive work of energetic thermodinamics and biosphere interactions (although not perfect, dangerous, and falible) produced by cause and effect and mere chance and probability... they have to be based by some pre created rules and principles that structured those interactions in order to engage in that selforganising feedback of the system, where o what did they came from? What are the psycological states related to profound spiritual experiences?. Is it counciousness a type of "light" or fine energy that can store and comunicate and recieve inteligent info? same with tons of questions that are not yet replicable by experiments, probably with the nature of quantum computers somethings would be dilucidated in the terms of what is conciousness, and how it realtes to energy and electricity etc...

The NDEs have also taken my attention for quite some years, and they tend surpass conventional mechanicist explanations. Why are the way they are, how conciousness operates and is able to record things outside the body that happened in other locations or rooms away from were the body was flatlining, not being able to hear or see it. Others can foreseen future events of their life exactly as later happened.

Anyways this field is full of scammers of course, and is based mostly in concepts that are of psychological training difficult to prove with  hard positivism science, beacuse it enters still in the category of "qualias" (not quantificable, yet). But also it has more legit sources coming from the scrutinity of previous esoteric traditons dating back much long ago from the time of Egypt, in which nowadays can have expression in some sufist schools, 4th way groups, zazen, and probably some  few rosicrucian or masonic orders.

One particular idea that resonates behind some of these gnostic traditions is that basically most of humanity (the ones that are purely dominated by his animal tendencies and have developed his conciousness very little) and animal kingdom is cattle for a local demiurge that has to balance this magnetic electric energies, and at death our animic matter goes magnetized to the moon, or if it is a bit stronger reincarnates into another human or animal to perfect itself lol Unless you forge an inner spiritual body that is strong enough and can withstand all of the external forces and egoistic flaws at wich is subjected, It could continue by his own into other realms of the universe

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seemed more appropriate to reply here in this thread...

i've been interested in gnostic traditions & esoterics of many sorts casually for most of my life as well. but the answers they're 'finding' are for questions that aren't really valid imo. those questions are interesting in a conceptual sense, a god, a spirit, 'purpose' etc...but they're not the right questions, they're sidestepping reality...hell, they're often trying to use that sidestepping of reality as the selling point. almost everything brought up in that 1st paragraph falls into that imo...it's 'interesting' to consider & think through as a thought experiment, but that doesn't mean it's valid or real or even useful...it's often quite the opposite. it confuses, it doesn't illumiate.

NDEs are very interesting, but i've not seen, heard, or read anything that makes me think they're anything other than brains misfiring/failing/kicking back in & interpreting the jumble of those highly irregular & stressful moments into a narrative/formed shape. everything in our human experience for any of us civilized, raised with language and such, is built upon story & narrative & being able to 'define' in some way. this is why the NDEs are particularly interesting, it's as close to an otherworldly experience as one might be able to get.

yeah the scammers are eternal, no doubt on that. i imagine some number of them believe some degree of what they're spouting tho...just like the mainstream versions (Joel Osteen & his like) but it gives a bad reputation to anyone anywhere near.

that 'cattle for other-dimensional gods' thing is pretty wild. love reading stories about weird shit down that road...super cool as a fiction, and interesting to study just to understand the 'religions', i think the Gnostics themselves had classed the God of the Bible as a demon or lesser god beneath some actual true outer-universe type true God over all. i forget the exacts off the top of my head, been years since i read into that deeply, i remember being pretty interested in the concept of it tho.

  On 8/13/2024 at 5:49 AM, auxien said:

seemed more appropriate to reply here in this thread...

i've been interested in gnostic traditions & esoterics of many sorts casually for most of my life as well. but the answers they're 'finding' are for questions that aren't really valid imo. those questions are interesting in a conceptual sense, a god, a spirit, 'purpose' etc...but they're not the right questions, they're sidestepping reality...hell, they're often trying to use that sidestepping of reality as the selling point. almost everything brought up in that 1st paragraph falls into that imo...it's 'interesting' to consider & think through as a thought experiment, but that doesn't mean it's valid or real or even useful...it's often quite the opposite. it confuses, it doesn't illumiate.

NDEs are very interesting, but i've not seen, heard, or read anything that makes me think they're anything other than brains misfiring/failing/kicking back in & interpreting the jumble of those highly irregular & stressful moments into a narrative/formed shape. everything in our human experience for any of us civilized, raised with language and such, is built upon story & narrative & being able to 'define' in some way. this is why the NDEs are particularly interesting, it's as close to an otherworldly experience as one might be able to get.

yeah the scammers are eternal, no doubt on that. i imagine some number of them believe some degree of what they're spouting tho...just like the mainstream versions (Joel Osteen & his like) but it gives a bad reputation to anyone anywhere near.

that 'cattle for other-dimensional gods' thing is pretty wild. love reading stories about weird shit down that road...super cool as a fiction, and interesting to study just to understand the 'religions', i think the Gnostics themselves had classed the God of the Bible as a demon or lesser god beneath some actual true outer-universe type true God over all. i forget the exacts off the top of my head, been years since i read into that deeply, i remember being pretty interested in the concept of it tho.

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I do not agree with the concept of sidestepping reality. Reality to begin with is not a fixed concept and depends a lot upon the grade of conciousness some particular entity may have. Regular humans have a particular degree of conciousness, humans that have their system fully healthy developed and work conciously on themselves have  higher one (have higher intuition, strong being and emotional stability, coherent and efective thought construction, deep will, and a more stable "I" that does't fluctuate much by circumstances, expectatives or emotional shocks, and interest in generating things of value for others and themselves), animals other, more develped animals a wider one, etc depends a lot with the mental, emotional and physical development of a given organism, and their ability to sense and digest that force or conciousness that permeates everything. Mystics may have had deeper insights than us, and experienced a completely different picture that our so called half awake view of consensual"reality" in which the main concern seems to pay bills, fuck or trying to be succesfull to other tards out of hidden contempt, vanity or external opinions from people that will not move a thought if we died on the spot. If we modify the the brain almost muting most of its activiy, we may recieve finer and deeper streams of conciousness, just like mystic states or magic mushrooms do, and once there understand something in a different way, maybe a view of "reality" more real or coherent, naked from all the subective egoic clothing or personal background we have (havent tryed mushrroms myself yet, and not expert on meditation, just have much theoric knowledge about these things)

Science just can tell a fraction of it based on our current development of physics, and thats it, we do not know more than some basic particles and subparticles dynamics and some physics laws, we do not grasp yet a bit of how conciousness operates inside our brains, and what this universe may really be. Trying to go further than those explanations checking other sources and trying to connect dots or inner verify some aspects is not sidestepping reality in my opinion. There are tons of data pointing to the existence of an inner energy quality of being that can develop, and could be the so called spirit, that can operate after this flesh existence on this planet.. why would be so the case? all of it just fake during lot of centuries? Refuse to think so, and I do not lose particularly anthing by trying to pursue it and understanding it to the degree my life would let. We are on a tiny planet of tiny solar system on a huge universe, I think we havent figured much of reality yet.

NDEs have many data that current science is unable to explain, like those out of body descriptions of events not posible to have been percieved by the person, and then confimed by other witnesses. Science has only the argumentation you have mentioned, and it falls short

The demiurge stuff may be a uncanny thing with many pseudointerpretations but that kinda matches the kind of shitty, accidental, unpredictable and many times allowed to absurd cruelty reality we have. There may be in fact a conciouss demiurge spirit that tries to help to liberate more conciouss individuals, and send big spiritual teachers, and a major evil one which allows and foment all of the crap. That one could have been summoned or invited by Moses to access the inner energy of the earth. We are talking about Yahweh, and since then it has been adored and praised as a "god". We all know the power some systems like judaism magic have, they may be using the power of this demiurge to control the banking system, and hypnotyze most humanity. But that is one sloppy theory of it hahaa

figured this sorta fits the bill for this thread:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095482/

The last universal common ancestor between ancient Earth chemistry and the onset of genetics

thinking about a universal common ancestor is pretty wild. that article posits that all living life forms on earth can be traced back to having originated from rocks...then billions of years and gazillions of random mutations later, we get to the chimps (who we share 98.8% DNA with - https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/human-origins/understanding-our-past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps#:~:text=But for a clear understanding,98.8 percent of their DNA.). then we branch of into the homo groups, and eventually modern humans.

something I ask myself is what were all these gods, devas, spirits, etc. doing that whole time before animals started? most humans tend to think of these divine beings as having human or animal form. but what about before there were animals? did these gods then also start at the same time? or were they hanging back waiting until modern humans could somehow discover them...in my modest opinion, all of the stuff involving any sort of gods, spirits, or higher power are all created by the human mind. you and I learned about this eternal spirit stuff from some book or someone else, we were all conditioned by this information. 

  On 2/23/2024 at 10:40 PM, luke viia said:

bought this book recently and it is seriously fantastic

@Milwaukeeeee you'd probably love it as much as I do

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Found a copy of this at Goodwill, had no clue what I was in for. Still slowly digesting it a year later. 

  On 8/14/2024 at 12:33 AM, zero said:

figured this sorta fits the bill for this thread:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095482/

The last universal common ancestor between ancient Earth chemistry and the onset of genetics

 

thinking about a universal common ancestor is pretty wild. that article posits that all living life forms on earth can be traced back to having originated from rocks...then billions of years and gazillions of random mutations later, we get to the chimps (who we share 98.8% DNA with - https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/human-origins/understanding-our-past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps#:~:text=But for a clear understanding,98.8 percent of their DNA.). then we branch of into the homo groups, and eventually modern humans.

something I ask myself is what were all these gods, devas, spirits, etc. doing that whole time before animals started? most humans tend to think of these divine beings as having human or animal form. but what about before there were animals? did these gods then also start at the same time? or were they hanging back waiting until modern humans could somehow discover them...in my modest opinion, all of the stuff involving any sort of gods, spirits, or higher power are all created by the human mind. you and I learned about this eternal spirit stuff from some book or someone else, we were all conditioned by this information. 

 

 

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It is scientifically talking a process of evolution and inclusion of previous stages. First it was the geosphere, that then mixed with the hydrosphere, minerals, heat etc gave creation to the biosphere, and from the biosphere, then the evolution of species including more complex stuff, and organic systems, till the human which created the noosphere, the field of intentional semantics and generative ideas and fields of information. Each stage has more complexity in the degree of conciousness and vibration involved. Rocks have denser vibrations, the biosphere higher ones, and noosphere (depending on its nature, if it is a coherent thought not a destructive negative one) even faster or higher vibrations. Until the degree of pure singularity of conciousness I guess.

All these gods may be most of them social creations, or who knows maybe influenced by some higher civilization that lived long ago and had contacts with other extraterrestrial cultures. And god, the eternal spirits etc of course we have learned it from books or other source, but not only ourselves, hundreds of generations before.. maybe the question is not that we are being conditioned by that information, but why that information seems to be relevant and important, even way before major organized religions also tried to "sell it" as a blackmailing tactic of eternal punishment, and hasn't been discarded, has been  keept by not only the mainstream religions but esoteric circles that doesnt have much of a economic or political interest with the idea, just the perfection of human capabilities. And I refuse to think is just "fear" of death lol. More to be with higher states of conciousness, NDEs, mystic states etc..

what is this bullshit thread about