so, uhhh.....

  ten fingers ten toes said:

LOL an article from 1996...

 

You're such a fucking joke it's just great to get a laugh.

 

BTW, you do need somewhat of a rational justification analogue wings... for instance, my dog would not be of much use as a midi sequencer.....

it's the review of the hardware sequencer i recommended - it was released in 96

???

Does it come with a Saved by the Bell VHS too?

look:

2006 (now)

posted by Logic developer John Pitcairn

Note that due to midi timing jitter, varying response time and jitter

between midi devices, and the (unfortunately) tempo-dependent

environment/arrange delay parameters, it's unlikely you'll ever get

reliably perfect sync for external midi devices.

John Pitcairn

1996 (SOS review when QY700 was released)

So how good is the QY700's timing? The answer, you'll be pleased to hear, is 'too good for these ears to fault!'

that's the end of the argument

2 significant electronic music producers who use Reason apart from Vibert?

you seem to have vanished Ten Fingers Ten Toes you weak-minded simpleton

at very least admit you're wrong - this is a public forum - anyone can read this... the worst thing possible is to disappear now and not even appologise for your mistakes and misjudgement

it's the behaviour of a spoilt 10 year-old

very weak

<disgust></disgust>

i'm not waiting any longer - i've wasted far too much time and energy trying to educate someone who clearly isn't man enough to admit when he's wrong, let alone take anything useful from it

i'll not re-enter this thread so as not to waste server space with this pathetic excuse any longer - your inevitable vulgarity will fall on deaf/uninterested ears

I went to have some dinner before I go off to bed (I have to be at work in a few hours).

I think you know you're comparing apples to oranges between an engineer on a forum and a SOS magazine reviewers opinion on the preciseness of midi timing. I work with a few engineers at work. Fun people who spend days agonizing over the most efficient way to check the status of a process on a UNIX machine. They could argue endlessly about 3ms worth of difference and make it seem like a lifetime.

I don't really care what your stupid opinion is either way. The sample timing on PCs is good enough for anyone except maybe Phil Collins' drummer? I believe the correct answer here is who gives a shit. Why would you spend a ton of extra cash and desktop real estate on an aging behemoth whose only discernible difference is a shift in time that could be made up for by moving a foot back from your speakers? Especially the hypothetical Microkorg owner I was originally referring to!

But please, continue to fume about it, its funny, and fun to know you'll spend a day thinking about it while I go read a little bit and fall asleep. You've essentially become a parody of yourself, so completely wrapped up in whatever odd importance you hold over web forums that you've ended up trolling nobod but you.

  Quote

I believe the correct answer here is who gives a shit.

firstly, that's not an answer it's a question, just without a question mark stuck on the end...

second, you did, you were the one who argued with me about it relentlessly over almost an entire page...

how bad is the MIDI timing on PC's and Mac's? it's loose - SX3 has latency jitter over 28ms - simply playing a MIDI keyboard into a computer has unacceptable latency for many people - it's one of many benefits of h/w sequencing i mentioned earlier

Yeah, its like one time I played this gig and I was using my laptop as the main sequencer. Everyone started leaving 15 minutes into it, and when I asked someone why they said, "Man your midi timing is shit, I was dancing to the beat until it shifted by 5ms. That's fucked! The jitter was unbearable. Go get hardware sequencers. Your shit better be perfectly in time. Fucking jitterer!"

  Endoplasmic Reticulum said:

Yeah, its like one time I played this gig and I was using my laptop as the main sequencer. Everyone started leaving 15 minutes into it, and when I asked someone why they said, "Man your midi timing is shit, I was dancing to the beat until it shifted by 5ms. That's fucked! The jitter was unbearable. Go get hardware sequencers. Your shit better be perfectly in time. Fucking jitterer!"

i meant no offense man and sorry i was so harsh, but i spend a lot time on my moves. lots of cascading little flourishes and bends, i like to think of myself as a crowd pleaser / show stopper.

BUT if you don't give me a solid foundation to build my routine on i look like a prick. the problem isn't just you though, i'm finding it at every club now. i've started bringing a little pen light to carry while i'm dancing to one of these jittery cunts. whenever i detect jitter i flash a quick pen light on the musician's face to let the crowd know that it was his bad. they call me J-Spot now, kinda cool but not really the kind of rep i'm looking for. rather be known for moves than for 'accuracy police' but whatevs...

so anyway good luck and all, but either get some H/W or get some shades because wherever your beat isn't on point, my pen light is.

sloppy midi timing makes things feel loose

it means you snare might come in 30ms late... that's not necessarily enough to sound out of time or anything, but it'll change the way your music comes across

i use a computer - but if you want to know if there's any advantages to h/w sequencers

if you're on about playing live, for one a h/w sequencer won't crash - for two you can actually play it live - track mutes, switching patterns, switching sequences, switching songs even, things you can't really do on a computer without delay and glitches - it's why autechre play off machinedrums and mmt-8's innit

as for that people walking out... well people use that same bullshit argument when you're talking about anything, pre-amps, synths, reverbs, etc.

why use a lexicon reverb? will people not buy my album just because i've used a cheap reverb? how about compressors? will anyone notice whether i use the cubase stock compressor or a waves plugin?

follow that logic and you'll just end up making shitty sounding laptop music in the belief that no one really listens to music and no one gives a shit anyway

really interesting stuff here maynard. i'm definitely in the mood for a hardware sequencer once i get some more synths and shit.

it's pretty obvious with shitty timing between drum machines and ableton. have to do lots of workarounds to route everything in my mixer into ableton and still have the timing reasonable. the tr707's tempo isn't very reliable together with ableton, and all those little 30ish ms delays add up. and if you have a good sense of timing, those little delays are definitely noticeable.

uh, you can definitely crash a hardware sequencer.

anyway, the prof. seems like a dbag but he's kind of right. midi is not very accurate at all, particularly when it's coming from a computer, and particularly when it's coming over USB from a computer.

one thing i will say about fruityloops, when driving internal generators the timing is dead the fuck on. you can't get that in almost any other host with FL's features. load up battery in pro tools and bounce a beat three times and it comes out different each time. shit like that gives me the willies.

  Ascdi said:

anyway, the prof. seems like a dbag

  Ascdi said:

uh, you can definitely crash a hardware sequencer.

 

anyway, the prof. seems like a dbag but he's kind of right. midi is not very accurate at all, particularly when it's coming from a computer, and particularly when it's coming over USB from a computer.

 

one thing i will say about fruityloops, when driving internal generators the timing is dead the fuck on. you can't get that in almost any other host with FL's features. load up battery in pro tools and bounce a beat three times and it comes out different each time. shit like that gives me the willies.

fruity loops is for those horrible self-righteous american teenag..g... oh

good thing i use the supra hyper perfesshunal version FLSTUDIO then

cuz, you know, i have a STUDIO

you have a hair and nails studio you share with your younger sisters

great for your cuticles, not particularly conducive to music production however

ha! seriously though. you're the one on the massive tear about timing. FL is sample-accurate.

timing's really not a huge issue for me - it just took much longer than expected to explain the concept to my retard stalker

i know what you mean, about timing anyway. i used to get all bent out of shape about it but now i pretty much just earball it and if necessary nudge a bit and try and keep working. you know, without obsessing too much.

so prof,

have you used a Qy700? i was considering getting one based on my own research for extremely complex midi sequencer hardware. If you have used one Is it good for on the fly real-time beat making?

  Ascdi said:

i know what you mean, about timing anyway. i used to get all bent out of shape about it but now i pretty much just earball it and if necessary nudge a bit and try and keep working. you know, without obsessing too much.

yeah it can be really inappropriate - when i used to do stuff which needed to be tight, like techno, you basically had to render every drum track down separately and go through each one cutting and pasteing bits inbetween each hit to make it sound tight enough

now i'm doing music which actually benefits from sounding a little loose, so i do it much more by ear, adjusting midi channel delay occassionally

still, it's wierd just how tight the same drum breaks can sound triggered from a drum machine or mmt8 - it sounds like you've processed the sounds differently - just 10ms delay on a snare can make a track sound very laid back

  Quote

so prof,

 

have you used a Qy700? i was considering getting one based on my own research for extremely complex midi sequencer hardware. If you have used one Is it good for on the fly real-time beat making?

absolutely - it's like the best bits of an MPC or RS7000, with pretty much all the extras you might get from a s/w sequencer... i'll definetly get another at some point... gives you a very different connection with your music - i really feel h/w sequencers leave you much more open to sound, and make you much more critical and discerning too... a lot of producers lately talk about the trap of s/w sequencing where the process becoming more important than the product

some ppl still prefer the rs7000 - i've not got much experience with them

  Prof. Winston P.Caullier said:

absolutely - it's like the best bits of an MPC or RS7000, with pretty much all the extras you might get from a s/w sequencer... i'll definetly get another at some point... gives you a very different connection with your music - i really feel h/w sequencers leave you much more open to sound, and make you much more critical and discerning too... a lot of producers lately talk about the trap of s/w sequencing where the process becoming more important than the product

 

some ppl still prefer the rs7000 - i've not got much experience with them

both of those look pretty good, what advantages does the Qy700 have over the RS7000 besdies price? If the rs7000 has essentially the same midi capabilities i might get one of those, the pads are velocity sensitive and it has CC out knobs as well.

i think the RS7000 is a much more down to earth loop sequencer - like the MPC's

great for dance music and techno

i'd still go for a qy700 myself because you've got a lot of features, a better screen, etc. it's what squarepusher did (/does?) most of his programming with

i think they probably are 75% the same machine underneath tho

  Prof. Winston P.Caullier said:

i think the RS7000 is a much more down to earth loop sequencer - like the MPC's

 

great for dance music and techno

 

i'd still go for a qy700 myself because you've got a lot of features, a better screen, etc. it's what squarepusher did (/does?) most of his programming with

 

i think they probably are 75% the same machine underneath tho

does the qy700 have grid record mode with a chase light going across the step buttons?