Reason 4

  sisforawesome said:

  getting photons said:

still no VST support?

beat me to it.

is there any specific reason they don't support vsts?

vaguely remember reading something, but i can't think of what it was.

they used to say it was about stability - they could guarantee Reason staying stable if it was self-contained, but if they opened it up to third-party extensions it wouldn't be so easy.

There's probably loads of stable VSTs these days though

They have resisted Audio inputs because they wanted to concentrate on synthesis and samplers.

Basically, I think they take the view that there are already loads of good audio processing studio apps and loads of good VST host apps, and what differntiates Reason is just concentrating on something specific (a rack of virtual gear) and trying to do it really well.

These days - there's tons of good music software, debates about what is 'best' dont make any sense anymore- its about choosing something you prefer to work with. In the same way that some people prefer to play a piano than play a guitar, or vice versa.

  Adjective said:

using a computer mouse to compose is like playing piano with a spoon

nice quote.

but am i missing something?

apart from mouse composing and midi inputs from a keyboard or device, are there any other ways to compose?

paper

  zazen said:

  Adjective said:

using a computer mouse to compose is like playing piano with a spoon

 

nice quote.

 

but am i missing something?

 

apart from mouse composing and midi inputs from a keyboard or device, are there any other ways to compose?

i was speaking specifically of my experience of having to use one finger to enter every note in Reason, i had no midi controller or anything, as it compares to using a tracker in which you're using all fingers in a shortcut-key fashion. take both apps, assuming you have no external gear aside from mouse + computer keyboard and the tracker method is more carpal tunnel friendly.

i'm sure Reason is a more comfortable experience with external controllers, certainly

  GORDO said:

paper

oh yeah ... forgot : )

Reason 4 looks ok, incremental but not really revolutionary. Thor and the Groove console looks interesting. And they have 'celebrity' Thor patches!

  Quote

We invited some of the world's leading synthesists and sound developers to add their own Thor patches to the Reason Sound Bank. They are:

 

- Daniel Wang

- Morgan Geist

- Pascal Gabriel

- Plaid

- Richard Barbieri

- Richard Devine

- Sonic Boom

- Tipper

- Two Lone Swordsmen

- Gordon Reid

- Vengeance

I've been upgrading since 2.5, so it looks like I'll be able to move to Reason 4 for 99 Euros, which is a pretty good deal ... so I probably will.

  Adjective said:

i think they should break up reason into a suite of VSTs

i'd kill for a vst version of the nnxt sampler. best software sampler going, imo.

  GORDO said:

paper

playing an instrument

singing into a microphone

I think the single best improvement to Reason 4.0 is the time signature/tempo automation. This feature was sorely, sorely, lacking from 3.0. Reason had a few examples, such as that, that were keeping it from being really good. Now it looks as if most of these problems have been addressed. The groove editor looks like a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm very excited about this. All the new stuff looks awesome! I'm glad they are improving the sequencer, that's awesome news.

Hey Loganfive; I am buying a new computer and I am going to put either logic or cubase on it. Ever try logic?? In your opinion does cubase surpass it?

depends what computer you buy.

logic is mac only now.

and i believe in the latest incarnation, they've stripped out quite a few of the really great features.

i have never used logic, but i know a good few people who swear by the pc version.

it's a bit of a pain to get into but apparently fucking incredible if you master its use.

i have never found cubase to disappoint me. it does everything i need it to do. its routing capabilities are outstanding if you've got a multi io soundcard.

it's pretty much swings and roundabouts with these two daws i believe.

just whichever you prefer.

yeah well, i just switched from the INTEL-MAC to a PPC-MAC :-D

and there's really great apps out there meanwhile. but well... MAYBE you got me into check a newer Cubase Version whenever i'm on a Pc somewhen soon. but i fear the main problem still exists for me... i'm pretty much working with shortcuts... and yes... i swear to logics flexibility on that matter too. you can quite do everything you may imagine - regarding control.

I am likely going to finally give in and go Mac this time. I was all set on cubase until someone was like logic is really good. I still am leaning toward cubase I think. What kind of soundcard do you use?

m-audio delta 1010

I reccomend logic.

Although yes, it will take longer time to learn... its worth it. The fact that you get a fuckload of synths etc that come with it, that are all rather high quality, should be worth it alone. You get synths, a physical modeling synth, a drum synth, a sampler, loads of effects/plugins. You could do entire productions using just logic.

You can do entire non-shite productions with reason. easy. Fuck prodigy.

hmmmm, I was under the impression that with the new version of cubase you could do entire productions with that too. And plenty of synths.

i dont know... I dont really keep up with the latest on cubase news.

just saying, logic has a lot of quality stuff included. (the physical modeling synth itself is completely unique, and you wont find anything like it else were... I love this synth)

hmmmm, ok thanks. I am still torn, but I have like two weeks to decide.

for what its worth, Logic 8 is supposed to be really badass... but no idea when its scheduled to release... theres been no announcements... just lots of insider rumors

  Velazquez said:

I like Reason. I don't like Prodigy.

I like Prodigy. I despise Reason

i will always stand by what i say when it comes to electronic music: Hardware is better, analogue over digital any day! analogue ftw

*debates furiously*

as regards the whole logic/cubase issue I can say for my part there is nothing in it apart from what you prefer. Ive used both extensively, and i still do, my setup, and the studio I help run both use cubase, but most of the studios I record in with my main band seem to use logic, and I work freelance style with guys that use both. you can do great quality productions with both (from start to finish) but the use of third party effects and instruments will increase the flexibility and quality-of-product with both as well.

logic, as mentioned before, has a steeper learning curve, but thats no big deal if you spend a few nights learning what you need to. I find cubases layout and setup SLIGHTLY more intuative but thats just me and the way I work, no other reason!

so, whatever you go with it will not hold you back, just try em out and see what takes your fancy.

I like reason too, I would never dream of putting out something created on it without rewireing but theres something about CREATING in it which just seems fun and easy. im looking foreward to 4. I just completed a comission of computer game style music and (aside from rewiring to mix) we used reason almost exclusively, and it sounds great. I will always be keeping it installed as if you have cubase it basically works like a vst collection.

at the end of the day, no program will give any extra quality or depth to your stuff, and you can do a great mix on any program with the right knowledge, just go with what feels good

there's a lot of debate between Logic and Cubase .. they seem to be the best for composing stuff. But what about Ableton .. and Pro-Tools?

  G. I. Raffe said:

there's a lot of debate between Logic and Cubase .. they seem to be the best for composing stuff. But what about Ableton .. and Pro-Tools?

well, pro tools is a bit different, its an audio recorder with midi sequencing added later as opposed to logic and cubase which are the other way round. that, coupled with the fact that protools is allot more picky with what hardware can be used with it, means that I wouldnt reccomend it for a small studio doing mainly programmed music.

protools is great, if you have a full system using there dedicated hardware, and one of there desks that is linked smoothly to the software its a super powerful, super flexible daw. but its designed with the top-end user in mind, to get the REAL benefits out of a PT system means spending thousands and thousands. it just wasnt designed to be an affordable workhorse peice of software, a full protools system is a combination of hard and software and really becomes the nervous system of a studio when implemented.

not to say you couldnt use it, but I think it would be easier, and definately cheaper, to go with something designed with our sort of seqeuncing in mind!

I like ableton too, but ive never got used to producing in it. I have used it for live stuff, and is still probably my first choice if I was to start playing out again. but i find it limiting to use in a studio environment. its great for getting up some loops, building a track quickly and getting ideas together, and if you are doing quite simple (in terms of arrangement) music with lots of loops (like drum and bass, house, hiphop etc) I can see how workflow would be increased with using it. you can get your sounds together then record in a number of arrangements, see which works best, and then neaten up really quickly.

however, doing crazy sound experiments, slicing beats artisticly, and easily creating long evolving patterns I find allot more intuitive in something like cubase etc. and the editing options in such programs allow you to quickly add that organic feeling that sequenced music often lacks (to my ears).

if you are very used to using it however, and you are happy with the results you get then I see no reason to change :)

when i used to enjoy going to town on slicing and processing parts of my track id slice a loop, program it, then bounce to audio, get the scissors out and re-slice it, adding destructive editing and loads of automation. the 1 click nature of all the tools and effects in cubase (being able to add sortcuts to certain processes etc) meant that the whole process was really fun and seemed a natural way to make music. when I have tried doing the same thing in ableton ive found it involved a lot more techniques and workarounds that took time and extra clicks, which for me and my fragile way of working led to frustration, and as such I was less inclined to spend as long fine tuning my track. with cubase/logic etc it felt as though I had an audio workshop in front of me which I could immerse myself in, but with ableton it felt like I was trying to get the program to do something that wasnt intuitive to the program.

these are of course just my experiences though, ive heard plenty of good music come from ableton, but most of it more loop-based!

o

That's a good read. CHeers