Why do you percive as wrong in music?

it's like sampling really - there are tasteful ways to do it and boorish ways to do it

If you "don't like" Beethoven, it doesn't make him any less good.

There are objective ways to analyze music, it is just a very difficult science since taste can often get in the way.

I think Mozart is the perfect example for me. Never much cared for him. But the guy was a genius. If I were to "perceive" it as bad. It would just make me retarded.

But yes, I wrote a paper on this back in school. There are two extremes, those who say "it's all relative man. Everything is good." That's retarded. And there there is the other extreme where people think it has to be Bach. That's retarded too.

Even everything is good, than nothing is good. Same with art. Art can't be everything, because than art is nothing. Borrowed that little bit from Aristotle. The people who say that there have to be rules that have to be followed have a better argument than the other extreme, but it runs into problems later on. It's kind of like the difference between the Comedian and Rorschach in The Watchmen. Comedian is a relativist. And Rorschach is an absolutist.

I am pleased with using my triumvirate of Enthusiasm, Discipline, and Natural Talent formula to analyze things. It yields good results. Try using it on your favorite artists. You can get pretty far if you have enough of two though. For example, I absolutely adore the new Beach House album. It is not only beautiful, but it is fresh, and authentic. That covers Natural Talent and Enthusiasm. But it is clear that the two members of the group do not have the chops of say, John McLaughlin and Herbie Hancock. So while the album is lacking in certain measures of Discipline, it is overflowing in the other two areas. Making it objectively good. Liking it has nothing to do with it. I love it. But not because it is good. Just because I like it. Bob Dylan's music (not including lyrics) is pretty bad. He has zero discipline. And little natural talent. I've seen him live and I don't think he has much enthusiasm either. But I still like it. Who knows why. That question is too hard to analyze. It's like asking why you love your wife when you could have someone better. You love them because you love them. Who knows why.

trends are pretty fucking terrible.

The problem with your grading scale rook is there is no objective measurement of your 3 qualities. What point value does Aphex Twin score in Discipline, Enthusiasm, and Natural Talent? What point values does Squarepusher have in these categories? objective means that there are concrete, definable, rules by which any observer could come to the exact same conclusion. Really, your rating system is as entirely subjective as anyone elses, further reinforcing the point that nothing good or bad, only your perception thereof.

amen breaks and 303s

  Kcinsu said:

amen breaks and 303s

hahah, false in theory true in practice

what i'm hearing from everyone then is that i'm right.

  acridavid said:

One thing really wrong in music is when the artist doesn't enjoy making or performing it.

thats basically the answer.

its worth noting that bach's well tempered clavier is one of the most mindblowingly intelligent manmade creation ive ever seen. that guys brain was utterly ridiculous.

Oh my god, this is the most electronic music discussion ever!

When you see it from the musician type of view you can make lots of mistakes

so why do you lot say there is nothing wrong in music?

I mean there is harmonic theory -> that can be done wrong

there is mastering that can be done wrong

So does this shift from people making it and then people listening to it in a way that they even like something that its wrong?

what about a terribly mastered noise piece with no harmony just grating evolving noise in lofi. Does this become automatically wrong because its lacking "harmonic theory" or "quality mastering".

Wrong is a point of view simple as that. however people see right and wrong as definite objectively real concepts. things that exist outside of human opinion. thats just isnt true. So ultimately for someone to say everything is wrong in music is as true as soemone saying nothing is wrong in music or only certain things are wrong, cos its a subjective opinion.

it's only wrong if it's negatively unintentional. y/n?

  modey said:

it's only wrong if it's negatively unintentional. y/n?

yeah i would agree

if its obious you try to archive something like a certain harmony / rythm / mastering and fail

  pcock said:

right is when it sounds amazing to you.

 

wrong is when it doesnt sound amazing.

 

?

to contribute a piece of art to a civilized culture you have to take a given fact and advance it a bit to any of its borders.

you fail if there's no relation to both, border or center of what have intentionally taken (tonal structures, instruments, etc)

music on the other hand is received as an underscore to any emotion, from the blank one to the happy. i dont know who said it, but "you are dead, if you dont have a song to your life" is pretty much saying it all.

so music is (mostly?) wrong, when it has no story... and music written only for the money (not even to achieve a certain unknown structure or something) is (mostly?) in that direction.

i wonder how many of you have had the "is techno music ?" discussion in the 90s and what you made of what you answered until today.

glitch vst

  Rook said:

If you "don't like" Beethoven, it doesn't make him any less good.

I am pleased with using my triumvirate of Enthusiasm, Discipline, and Natural Talent formula to analyze things. It yields good results.

Again - can you post a link to your music?

  scones to die for said:

  Rook said:

If you "don't like" Beethoven, it doesn't make him any less good.

I am pleased with using my triumvirate of Enthusiasm, Discipline, and Natural Talent formula to analyze things. It yields good results.

Again - can you post a link to your music?

what does his music have to do with anything?

  vodor said:

  scones to die for said:

  Rook said:

If you "don't like" Beethoven, it doesn't make him any less good.

I am pleased with using my triumvirate of Enthusiasm, Discipline, and Natural Talent formula to analyze things. It yields good results.

Again - can you post a link to your music?

 

what does his music have to do with anything?

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive here. He's talking about principles that lead to good music. He makes music like everyone else in EKT. He likes Autechre and King Crimson; I like Autechre and King Crimson. I'd like to hear his music - I'm curious. If he doesn't want anyone to hear it, which I assume is the case, that's okay too.

oic

i'd also like to hear it.

the first thing I will have posted on hear will be my Metropolis track. I'd post something now, but I need to go buy a new soundcard. Since 1: old one is broken 2: no longer have access to hardware recorders, which is what I prefer to use. I have the money. It's just that the nearest music store that carries that kind of stuff is like an hour away. And I work until 5:00 now. Which means I usually just want to go home after work. I'll have to get one real soon though, so I can upload my Metropolis track.

  varius said:

  acridavid said:

One thing really wrong in music is when the artist doesn't enjoy making or performing it.

 

thats basically the answer.

I would have qualms with this. Some of the greatest artists ever thought their work was crap/hated doing it. Sometimes, an artist works because he has to. Not meaning for money. Just because it is part of him. (lol cheesy lol). Like Beethoven, or Michelangelo.

it seems like a difficult split between whether one considers music to be something manmade or any sound or collection therof

if music is manmade is this all a scale of communication?

if it can be anything is the tide music, a lightning storm? how do you gauge those things in enthusiam, natural skill, and discipline?

i personally have found atmosphere to have a tremendous influence on enjoyment and feeling in music and even if the songs i love the most aren't bach i cant say i'll value them less.

to each his own in the end