AE time signatures

pen expers is pretty clearly 4/4, unless there are some 5/4 bars thrown in there that i just am not seeing.

the melody is phrased at 6 measures of 4/4. at the end where it falls apart it gets a little tricky but from what i can tell it's all 4/4

As I heard it Sublimit is essentialy Machinedrum, so 4/4. Signature sounds weird because they used a lot retrig and stuff like that I guess.

How do you guys estimate the signature ?

  Goum Le Chat said:

As I heard it Sublimit is essentialy Machinedrum, so 4/4. Signature sounds weird because they used a lot retrig and stuff like that I guess.

I'm not talking about what time signature they made it in, I'm talking about what time signature it is in.

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How do you guys estimate the signature ?

I count.

wait, so a machinedrum can only compose in 4/4? that's lame.

Well, if this is true (I don't have one, I don't know, but purely hypothetically) I'm sure you could find ways around it. Like, put beat 1 on beat 1, put beat 2 on beat 2, put beat 3 on beat 3, and then put beat 1 of the next bar on beat 4, and so on, so the music is in 3/4, but the machine drum thinks it's all in 4/4.

Doesn't Snares use a machine drum? That would suggest to me that it can do more than 4/4.

  Goum Le Chat said:

How do you guys estimate the signature ?

Some of us are actually musicians.

I was estimating time signatures before I could walk.

  modey said:

wait, so a machinedrum can only compose in 4/4? that's lame.

  Root5 said:

Well, if this is true (I don't have one, I don't know, but purely hypothetically) I'm sure you could find ways around it. Like, put beat 1 on beat 1, put beat 2 on beat 2, put beat 3 on beat 3, and then put beat 1 of the next bar on beat 4, and so on, so the music is in 3/4, but the machine drum thinks it's all in 4/4.

 

Doesn't Snares use a machine drum? That would suggest to me that it can do more than 4/4.

It's only 4/4 but there's is tempo multiplier function. You can set it to x2, x3/2 and x3/4. But it's recent, when Untitled was made there was only x2.

Time signatures for fol3, Charachi?

Not that I care.. But still

characi is in 9/8 (or 9/4 maybe).

fol3 is in 4/4, for the most part.

edit: and fol3 is possibly one of the best autechre tracks since parhelic triangle, IMO.

Charachi alternates between 10 and 8.

Most AE songs are in 4.

Machine drum can compose in any time signature you want. I make plenty of songs in 5. And one track that alternates between like 26 and 23 or something (lol it actually sounds good seriously lol)

Slip's melody is in a different time signature than the beat (which is why the melody never begins in the same part in the measure). The beat is simple 4.

Pen Expers is almost completely in 4, excepts for one or two blips here or there. Flutter is in 4.

I here Hub in either 17 or or 13 depending on how fast I count the quarters. I kind of like to think of it in 17. Love that track.

Chichli is obviously in 5

I hear Dropp entirely in 7, it's just that sometimes the emphasis is on the second beat instead of the first which makes it sound like it alternates but I don't actually think it does.

Gantz Graf is entirely in 4. I remember first hearing that track and being like no way this is in four lol.

777 is obviously in 7

Blifil contains a lot of changes but I can't really remember what they are.

Drane is in 10

The opening bit of augmatic disport is in 13 but I am pretty sure it changes later. (obviously at the end)

One of the things I like most about AE is how smooth their sounds are even when they do use strange time signatures (with the possible exception of Hub which is deliciously unsettling). Like Vsnares is cold and jolting and crap along with Devine. Even Aphex's early drill stuff isn't nearly as smooth as Ae's work. At the same time, they can make 4 sound crazy like with gantz graf and pen expers but once you listen to it a few times, the entire sound begins to unravel and it's like you hear it for the first time.

  Rook said:

Blifil contains a lot of changes but I can't really remember what they are.

it is 4/4 but the tempo changes. i fucking love how they do it too, they pretty much destroy the beat at one tempo and resurrect it, it's groovy to me.

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One of the things I like most about AE is how smooth their sounds are even when they do use strange time signatures (with the possible exception of Hub which is deliciously unsettling). Like Vsnares is cold and jolting and crap along with Devine. Even Aphex's early drill stuff isn't nearly as smooth as Ae's work. At the same time, they can make 4 sound crazy like with gantz graf and pen expers but once you listen to it a few times, the entire sound begins to unravel and it's like you hear it for the first time.

this is my favorite thing about autechre. when you first listen to some tracks it's a total "WTF" but after some time they all fall in place.

Dropp is all in 7. No doubt about it.

I agree with the above comments. Snares sound is jarring and makes your heart skip a beat, but Autechre can be interesting without that kind of crap novelty.

  Rook said:

Characi alternates between 10 and 8.

10+8 = 18

18 / 2 = 9

"10" and "8" are rarely valid meters; the general rule is that if the meter can be simplified, it is. When 9 is not divided into 3 groups of 3, it can be broken down into groups of 2, 3 and 4. I hear Characi's division as 4+3+2 (or I guess 4+5), which would be a less confusing way to transcribe it for a musician, rather than using 9 which generally always means 3 using triplets.

I can't imagine 10+8 ever being used.

  theSun said:

  Rook said:

Blifil contains a lot of changes but I can't really remember what they are.

 

it is 4/4 but the tempo changes. i fucking love how they do it too, they pretty much destroy the beat at one tempo and resurrect it, it's groovy to me.

 

  Quote

One of the things I like most about AE is how smooth their sounds are even when they do use strange time signatures (with the possible exception of Hub which is deliciously unsettling). Like Vsnares is cold and jolting and crap along with Devine. Even Aphex's early drill stuff isn't nearly as smooth as Ae's work. At the same time, they can make 4 sound crazy like with gantz graf and pen expers but once you listen to it a few times, the entire sound begins to unravel and it's like you hear it for the first time.

 

this is my favorite thing about autechre. when you first listen to some tracks it's a total "WTF" but after some time they all fall in place.

 

I don't think they actually change the tempo, but they gradually add beats until the division is different and it turns into a swing, or 12 beat feel. This one is harder for me to explain, but I love it..one of my favourite Autechre tracks

edit: sorry I think I overquoted!

  Chogg said:

I don't think they actually change the tempo, but they gradually add beats until the division is different and it turns into a swing, or 12 beat feel.

Cap.IV and Lentic Catachresis are exceptions to the rule. Is this even musically valid?

  Chogg said:

  Rook said:

Characi alternates between 10 and 8.

 

10+8 = 18

 

18 / 2 = 9

 

"10" and "8" are rarely valid meters; the general rule is that if the meter can be simplified, it is. When 9 is not divided into 3 groups of 3, it can be broken down into groups of 2, 3 and 4. I hear Characi's division as 4+3+2 (or I guess 4+5), which would be a less confusing way to transcribe it for a musician, rather than using 9 which generally always means 3 using triplets.

 

I can't imagine 10+8 ever being used.

I don't want to be too blunt, but you are wrong. It alternates between 10 and 8. 10/8 and 8/8 are extremely common (in modern music at least). In fact, I am learning a (vocal) piece right now with both. The emphasis is usually what matters and what determines proper time signature. Characi shouldn't be that hard to figure out, for most of the track, there is a straight eighth note beat with kicks on the down beats. 18 total clicks per cycle, booms on the one and eleven.

Listen to some John McLaughlin. He uses 10 probably more than any musician I have ever heard. And there is a huge difference between 10 and five. In Music Theory I or Music Theory II, they usually tell you never to think of ten or that "no one writes in 10" (lol). Or they tell you to subdivide it into threes and twos, but that locks you into a certain sort of emphasis. Eventually, people broke out of that. What if you want to write music that has emphasis only after ten beats? You would write it in 10, otherwise you would confuse the musicians. If can count characi in 6 if you want to quite easily, but then the emphasis wont match up. It is also not all that uncommon, with longer time signatures, to see the entire time signature written out. Like 19 is often just written as nineteen if it goes fast. Celestial Terrestrial Commuters by the Mahavishnu Orchestra is in 19 (if I remember correctly). And I happen to have the score for it and John notates it in 19.

Lentic has like some 4/4 with a bit of 6 and sometimes 8.

no way augmatic is in 13...

not possible, the phrase repeats every four beats!

  Rook said:

I don't want to be too blunt, but you are wrong. It alternates between 10 and 8. 10/8 and 8/8 are extremely common (in modern music at least). In fact, I am learning a (vocal) piece right now with both. The emphasis is usually what matters and what determines proper time signature. Characi shouldn't be that hard to figure out, for most of the track, there is a straight eighth note beat with kicks on the down beats. 18 total clicks per cycle, booms on the one and eleven.

yeah, but if it constantly alternates between 10/8 and 8/8, then wouldn't it be more logical to consider it to be in 9/8? or 9/4 maybe? i understand your point, but it just seems to be overcomplicating things a little.

  dr lopez said:

no way augmatic is in 13...

 

not possible, the phrase repeats every four beats!

agreed.

hub is in 9/4, isn't it? i refer to the main melody as quarter notes.

  Enter a new display name said:

  Chogg said:

I don't think they actually change the tempo, but they gradually add beats until the division is different and it turns into a swing, or 12 beat feel.

Cap.IV and Lentic Catachresis are exceptions to the rule. Is this even musically valid?

Sorry, I was referring to Blifil. I think I quoted the wrong box.

And... wtf? I already made this post earlier, but it appears to have disappeared for some reason.

I'm not going to bother trying to rewrite everything, but those are some very interesting observations Rook. I still think it makes more sense to simplify the meter in this particular case, at least, unless you're counting the hi hat as the beat (I count 2 per beat). I mean, your analysis = 18/8 (ultimately); mine = 9/4. Same thing, no?

I'm starting to think Autechre and theory shouldn't be mixed. :omg:

  Quote

Machine drum can compose in any time signature you want. I make plenty of songs in 5. And one track that alternates between like 26 and 23 or something (lol it actually sounds good seriously lol)

How do you set that kind of sginatures into MD ? Using tempo multiplier, pattern lenght and swing ? Or with your daw ?

  modey said:

  Rook said:

I don't want to be too blunt, but you are wrong. It alternates between 10 and 8. 10/8 and 8/8 are extremely common (in modern music at least). In fact, I am learning a (vocal) piece right now with both. The emphasis is usually what matters and what determines proper time signature. Characi shouldn't be that hard to figure out, for most of the track, there is a straight eighth note beat with kicks on the down beats. 18 total clicks per cycle, booms on the one and eleven.

yeah, but if it constantly alternates between 10/8 and 8/8, then wouldn't it be more logical to consider it to be in 9/8? or 9/4 maybe? i understand your point, but it just seems to be overcomplicating things a little.

 

  dr lopez said:

no way augmatic is in 13...

 

not possible, the phrase repeats every four beats!

agreed.

 

 

 

hub is in 9/4, isn't it? i refer to the main melody as quarter notes.

No, ive not heard the track but if there is distinct accents on the 1st beat and the 11th beat then it distinctly clarifies it as a signature that alternates between 10/8 to 8/8. or 5/4 to 4/4 depending on how you listen to it.

i think a lot of this is subjective, since Ae songs sometimes do not have a distinct feel to me. you can debate all day whether a song is 18/8 or 9/8, it's still the same song with the same feel. it doesn't necessarily have to conform with conventional time signatures. i also do not think sean or rob are too big on traditional rhythmic or harmonic theory.