Reason and Ableton

So I have both of these DAWs on my lappy, and although I am thoroughly versed with Reason, I am constantly being told that Ableton is much better.

I'd like to see a bit of a breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses for either side. The way I see it now:

Ableton:

- Easier for live shows/re-arranging on the fly

- Better addon/3rd party plugin support

- Can import mp3's and samples easily

Reason:

- Alot better for actually learning WHAT you are doing to the sound

- Visually alot easier to comprehend

- Very flexible as far as HOW you want to do something

- Little to no sample integration.

- Better to actually tweak/compose a track.

Anything else I am missing out on here? I am still a bit of a newb with Reason, and a complete newb wtih ableton

  thehauntingsoul said:

So I have both of these DAWs on my lappy, and although I am thoroughly versed with Reason, I am constantly being told that Ableton is much better.

They tell you that for a reason (lol).

Live:

    Quote

- Easier for live shows/re-arranging on the fly

yep, but you sound like an ableton salesman, "on the fly" lol

    Quote

- Better addon/3rd party plugin support

Better? Reason has no 3rd party plugin support

    Quote

- Can import mp3's and samples easily

Reason can't import mp3's, samples are a bitch, yeah.

Reason:

    Quote

- Alot better for actually learning WHAT you are doing to the sound

How?

    Quote

- Visually alot easier to comprehend

Yep, until you press tab! You learn the layout of Live pretty quickly too, and it's far far more intuitive.

    Quote

- Very flexible as far as HOW you want to do something

No, not very flexible, but it's pretty easy to throw out and punch a few dials to have a sketch of a sound you want.

    Quote

- Better to actually tweak/compose a track.

No

Reason is barely passable as a DAW. But it's excellent for learning (which is it's biggest positive aspect), and it's very easy to throw out a sketch track. I think of it as Wordpad of music making, and apparently Liam Howlett does too.

I used it for 3 years before I moved onto ableton, i practically learnt everything from scratch without any prior experience, so I can't point out enough what a great learning tool it is.

Reason pro's:

quick

simple

Lots of cool factory presets and samples, especially on the NN-XT.

the combinator provides hours of fun for all ages

Con's:

terrible mixing algorithms, outdated Fx, unfriendly routing, NO VST SUPPORT STILL IN GOD DAMN 2009, midi roll is insufficient

Live pro's:

easy when you know music making, layout is a godsend,

computer friendly, i'm using an fucking eeepc701 to make music on it, can't do that with reason.

too many VST pro's to mention,

track freeze function,

easy sample browsing,

midi effects like randomizing,

everytime my computer crashes, Live seems to predict it and save me from losing hours of work.

i can record myself saying fart and turn it into an ambient drone album in a matter of minutes

Con's:

working on a smaller section in a big track can be abit annoying with the way the sequencer starts right after the change you just made in a midi or audio sequence, so you have to click around abit. it's more a minor inconvenience than a con though.

on the tiny screen i'm using it's difficult to move around and resize sections, but Live isn't even supposed to work on the early eeepcs, so i forgive ableton.

Reason is it's own little apartment studio where you just got a few synths and a mixer in.

Live is a fucking spacestation where you start practically from scratch, so it takes proper knowledge of all the components of music making for it to be of use to you.

A few tips with reason:

Learn every single knob and button on the Subtractor, and you're going to be well on your way to understanding synthesis, because the vast majority of synths are subtractive.

Learn the mixer, the returns and auxilary sends, what they do etc.

Don't even bother with the compressor because it's a parody of a shadow of a bad attempt at a compressor-like plugin.

Learn the EQ like the palm of your hand.

And most of all, have fun. Never be afraid to experiment and make mistakes, practically every track, sound or effect i'm satisfied with started with "hmm, i wonder what happens if i do this?"

Keep doing reason until you outgrow it; trust me, you're gonna know when that happens.

Give it at least another year. Also, check out reasonstation.net, you can download the .rps'es of experienced artists there, another great way to learn.

So would a person be considered retarded if they told you they were happy with Reason?

Reason's still great. The only thing I don't like about it is no VST support, and this also means you only have the mastering tools from Reason (I'm not that good at mastering yet anyway).

But as was said by chimera slot mom, it's a very nice program to use as a 'sketchbook', it's really easy to create the basics of a track in no time. Also, because you have a limited amount of synths and samplers etc. it's easier to move on and avoid getting stuck by sorting out the right VSTs and tweaking things endlessly (this can be very frustrating imo).

  OneToThirtySix said:

So would a person be considered retarded if they told you they were happy with Reason?

yes, because i can't handle people with different preferences than mine

yeah thats pretty much the vibe i got from ableton.

The biggest reason I posted this, actually, is I have a friend who just started using ableton who used FL for a little while. He clearly has alot to learn and it seems as though it requires alot more complex knowledge about music synthesis to use it effectively.

Reason is alot better for learning visually like I said, because its all laid out. In my brief period experimenting with ableton, I was completely baffled by all of the parameters to modify, etc, because it just seemed like you need some serious training before you use this prog.

That said its probably just because I'm used to the reason interface. I can see now that some day (once i actually feel the need) I will move on to Ableton or something similar/better

  chimera slot mom said:

yes, because i can't handle people with different preferences than mine

Well, thank god I was kidding, and you're being sarcastic.

I still haven't quite outgrown Reason. I picked it up really fast, and can visualize how to make a sound I want easily.

I'm starting to hate its mixing and compression systems enough to want to move on though, all my tracks have a rough/loud kinda quality that annoys me.

I've used it as a Rewire device controlled by Ableton many times, and often got good results, esp with sound quality, but it's kinda a bitch to go back and forth between them starting/stopping/recording/arming/disarming tracks, etc.

  OneToThirtySix said:

So would a person be considered retarded if they told you they were happy with Reason?

no but they would be if they were to say Reason is more powerful than most other DAW software. even Fruity has 3rd party plugin support now, Reason is being left in the dust for anyone who doesnt like have only one choice per genre of synthesis/instruments

  Awepittance said:

  OneToThirtySix said:

So would a person be considered retarded if they told you they were happy with Reason?

 

no but they would be if they were to say Reason is more powerful than most other DAW software. even Fruity has 3rd party plugin support now, Reason is being left in the dust for anyone who doesnt like have only one choice per genre of synthesis/instruments

Rewire hello?

when it comes to eq'ing and manipulating one shots, is ableton better with its infinite bounty of vsts?

I read an interview with vibert applauding reason for its ability to tweak samples.

Which has better capabilites for digging in and getting dirty with yr drum sounds?

  bossman said:

when it comes to eq'ing and manipulating one shots, is ableton better with its infinite bounty of vsts?

eqing is going to be the same in ableton, reason, fl, protools, or logic. same shit happening in a different interface

  bossman said:

I read an interview with vibert applauding reason for its ability to tweak samples.

i havent read that, but i can assure you reason not only does not hold a special ability to tweak samples, it lacks so many options and choices to be creative...just forget about reason, because everything reason can do, ableton and other DAWs can do better

fuck propellorhead...reason. what a piece of shit program. its basically a video game, for all the creative options it allows. its such an elementary software, it blows my mind that it has become such a successful software, and at the same time, limits its users to a pathetic amount of possibilities. ok, reason might have been cool at one time, or for a cool little feature it had (cables and routing? lol), but lets grow up and realize how much of a video game this thing is. yes you CAN make music in reason. should anyone? probably not, because there a lot better software out there to do it, for the same or close price, and thats only relevant if your still part of the, "paying for software" population.

jesus. do yourself a favor, if you really like making music, and your primarily using reason, do some research, and realize how much of a piece of shit reason is. its a fucking toy!

i would normally feel weird about badmouthing a small company for making software like reason, but too many people are giving it too much credit, and its becoming bigger than it deserves, so the word needs to get passed around, that reason isnt your music solution, its a little video game that lets you do certain things, basically not much

eventually youlkl realize that even ableton is bullshit. then youll be where im at now, not sure where to go. do i go max/masp style shit? i dont know...

what are the "a lot better software out there to do it, for the same or close price" you speak of?

  bossman said:

what are the "a lot better software out there to do it, for the same or close price" you speak of?

(also bearing in mind that a lot of VSTs have to be paid for)

Here i was thinking that i was noob for using ableton cause everyone was on reason, i think the only issue ableton has is the general awkwardness or arranging songs you have to record the part then sorta move it and copy but that part can easily be accidentally recorded trying to edit it in the slightest fashion, i find that ableton makes me do lazy things when arranging a composition as i dread the awkwardness involved in doing detailed editing of things something which isnt the case in other programs ive used.Otherwise ableton is amazing and pretty much flawless :)

  sneaksta303 said:

  Awepittance said:

  OneToThirtySix said:

So would a person be considered retarded if they told you they were happy with Reason?

 

no but they would be if they were to say Reason is more powerful than most other DAW software. even Fruity has 3rd party plugin support now, Reason is being left in the dust for anyone who doesnt like have only one choice per genre of synthesis/instruments

 

Rewire hello?

Fucking inconvenient as fuck to use 2 separate DAW programs to make music vs just 1 hello?

Your Favorite DAW Sucks

since 1985

  bossman said:

what are the "a lot better software out there to do it, for the same or close price" you speak of?

most scoff at it, but fruity loops, for around the same price i had thought, annihilates reason. people always bring up how reason lacks 3rd party plugin support, and that is freaking huge, if your interested in making music better than what reason allows. i used to use reason. its great for writing little bedroom tracks with a couple softsynths, some beats and some effects. for this its great. when you begin to get serious about your tracks sounding professional and up to par with todays standards of quality, you realize how using reason forces you into a small amount of effects and "mastering" software it includes.

so for the lack of 3rd party plugin support, reason will always lose in this argument. end discussion, and that doesnt even go into all the cool little features fruity loops has that reason does not

  zazen said:

(also bearing in mind that a lot of VSTs have to be paid for)

lots of people know how to get almost any vst for free from the internet now days. if your still paying for software, i respect that, its the right thing to do, but in this dog eat dog world, i, and many other people, have waken up to the opportunity that is the internet

and like i said, even ableton is beginning to feel small to me. do i need to get into max/msp? that is a real question i want answered

where are people having problems integrating samples into Reason? I don't get it.

  ET said:

  bossman said:

what are the "a lot better software out there to do it, for the same or close price" you speak of?

 

most scoff at it, but fruity loops

oic alas working on a mac

i've used FL in the past, I dig the sampler window and how you can tap various vst fx channels -- does ableton work like this? tutorials on youtube sorta skim over impulse

  bossman said:

  ET said:

  bossman said:

what are the "a lot better software out there to do it, for the same or close price" you speak of?

 

most scoff at it, but fruity loops

 

oic alas working on a mac

 

i've used FL in the past, I dig the sampler window and how you can tap various vst fx channels -- does ableton work like this? tutorials on youtube sorta skim over impulse

If you're on a mac then logic express, its not really that lacking in features compared to the full version and logic is an amazing program. If you like it enough you can upgrade to 'studio', the full version, for no more cost than you would have paid initially.

I don't feel like I have outgrown reason, but it seems to be

pretty old-fashioned now, but it's still comes in handy..

I'm learning ableton and I still can't find THE THING that could match

Tape distorsion from Reason Scream distorsion. Probably would have to spend few more days

of non-stop VST searching..

But, yes, reason becomes sluggish after some time..

omg reason is the best luke vibert uses it so it must be

so does liam, but they both have loads of synths and

drum machines and other quality equipment at home..

they probably use 12% of reason sounds, including refills..