cosmogony and cosmology

  IRARI said:

  autopilot said:

Cigarette smoke is not good for you.

 

i'm not so sure. i think if there is a god then god controls what many beings consider the inevitability of consequence. if the universe isn't conscious then yes maybe cigarette smoke is always bad for you.

Predestination isn't an excuse for harmful behavior.

  autopilot said:

  IRARI said:

  autopilot said:

Cigarette smoke is not good for you.

 

i'm not so sure. i think if there is a god then god controls what many beings consider the inevitability of consequence. if the universe isn't conscious then yes maybe cigarette smoke is always bad for you.

 

Predestination isn't an excuse for harmful behavior.

i won't try to convince you that cigarettes aren't harmful

Autopilot:

oooh, I don't think anyone could say that predestination has anything to do with behaviour but only what will happen has to happen...

no matter what choices we make....

harmful or helpful, these are just words and in the greater scheme of things, what do they matter? except to 'maybe' stay alive a bit longer than other people....

what we create is more important in my mind...

  Atop said:

yes I believe there has always been something keeping everything in order. Be it personal or not, I am not sure...all I have are my experiences to go on and how they relate to what knowledge I have been programmed with up until now....and perhaps knowledge I have gained through the collective memory.....

 

humanity is a product of this first thing, and perhaps we are a copy of it, being able to do whatever we are capable of thinking about...

this is basically what i believe except i believe that the "something keeping everything in order" is personal. i don't really believe in a collective memory though. even something abstracted from its position would still perforce have a source. i think that source is god, and that all we know comes directly from god.

or alternately, that when we come into being, we are "like god" in that we have knowledge of all that can be known at the time when we "are born," and that later phenomena like forgetfulness happen not randomly but because god chooses to limit our knowledges in order to deal with his own problems or to prepare us for heaven or samadhi.

maybe....

  IRARI said:

would anyone like to explain bubble universe theory, particularly how or where the multiple universes are located within the multiverse?

It's like a swiss cheese and the holes are the universes, capiche?

  vasio said:

  IRARI said:

would anyone like to explain bubble universe theory, particularly how or where the multiple universes are located within the multiverse?

 

 

 

It's like a swiss cheese and the holes are the universes, capiche?

then i would define "universe" as the multiverse is defined, and say that the bubble universes are more like points within the universe. and i think it's capisce.

I think of it more like boils on human skin, whatever started the boil is a black hole and our body being the first universe, with the boils being the new ?

edit: hehehe...

and IRARI, I will say maybe or perhaps to everything....

Not me being a cynic, but an optimistic fatalist....

  Atop said:

I think of it more like boils on human skin, whatever started the boil is a black hole and our body being the first universe, with the boils being the new ?

are you sure that there can have been a "first universe?" don't all universes co-exist simultaneously in infinity?

the theory would involve a beginning and I don't really subscribe to it as I have shown with comparing the universe to boils, I was joking....

  Atop said:

the theory would involve a beginning and I don't really subscribe to it as I have shown with comparing the universe to boils, I was joking....

can you deny the reality of sequence though? i think there must be beginnings. because for example do you know anything? to know certain things you have to already know another thing. even if awareness is a process of "discovery" of truths within the collective unconscious, you must admit that you learn in an order and that is how i think time is being forever defined: the intervals between realizations.

  IRARI said:

  vasio said:

  IRARI said:

would anyone like to explain bubble universe theory, particularly how or where the multiple universes are located within the multiverse?

 

 

 

It's like a swiss cheese and the holes are the universes, capiche?

 

then i would define "universe" as the multiverse is defined, and say that the bubble universes are more like points within the universe. and i think it's capisce.

Read a bit on M-theory should give you a better idea, btw I've learned everything about cosmology by listening to Dopplereffekt then reading DRL.

There gets a point when the discussion gets so arbitrary and abstract that I just suddenly switch to "Oh well." and just go about my normal business.

Irari:

perhaps...

I see and experience sequence and synchronicity all of the 'time'...

I don't remember my early childhood, like most of us....

so I could have been made by Italian chefs....

like I said, it will all be in the book, sorry if I don't elaborate more here...

I have done so much of it in the past...

I do enjoy talking to you and Autopilot though...

most people can be so antagonistic just for the sake of saying the opposite....

that bothers me....

it shouldn't but it does.

  vasio said:

  IRARI said:

  vasio said:

  IRARI said:

would anyone like to explain bubble universe theory, particularly how or where the multiple universes are located within the multiverse?

 

 

 

It's like a swiss cheese and the holes are the universes, capiche?

 

then i would define "universe" as the multiverse is defined, and say that the bubble universes are more like points within the universe. and i think it's capisce.

 

 

Read a bit on M-theory should give you a better idea, btw I've learned everything about cosmology by listening to Dopplereffekt then reading DRL.

m-theory looks too much like a godless cosmology to be useful to me. i believe in god. i'm really trying to get at a working definition of the absolute/logos/tao.

  autopilot said:

There gets a point when the discussion gets so arbitrary and abstract that I just suddenly switch to "Oh well." and just go about my normal business.

i don't think any of this is arbitrary, except maybe yek's posts itt. perhaps you are a pessimist.

  Atop said:

Irari:

 

perhaps...

 

I see and experience sequence and synchronicity all of the 'time'...

 

I don't remember my early childhood, like most of us....

 

so I could have been made by Italian chefs....

 

like I said, it will all be in the book, sorry if I don't elaborate more here...

 

I have done so much of it in the past...

 

I do enjoy talking to you though...

 

most people can be so antagonistic just for the sake of saying the opposite....

 

that bothers me....

 

it shouldn't but it does.

yes i am enjoying talking to you too. i'm sorry i never took the chance to get to know you before. and that i don't like dubstep lol.

Good reading:

http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~aes/AST105...ionsBigBang.pdf

I wouldn't consider myself a pessimist. There's just a point in these types of discussions where it becomes such an abstract discussion of something completely intangible that I lose interest and return my focus to the world around me.

  vasio said:

Good reading:

 

http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~aes/AST105...ionsBigBang.pdf

if the big bang is true how did the matter get condensed in the first place?

  Quote

  Atop said:

Irari:

 

perhaps...

 

I see and experience sequence and synchronicity all of the 'time'...

 

I don't remember my early childhood, like most of us....

 

so I could have been made by Italian chefs....

 

like I said, it will all be in the book, sorry if I don't elaborate more here...

 

I have done so much of it in the past...

 

I do enjoy talking to you though...

 

most people can be so antagonistic just for the sake of saying the opposite....

 

that bothers me....

 

it shouldn't but it does.

 

yes i am enjoying talking to you too. i'm sorry i never took the chance to get to know you before. and that i don't like dubstep lol.

Check out Spaceape's lyrics....

  autopilot said:

I wouldn't consider myself a pessimist. There's just a point in these types of discussions where it becomes such an abstract discussion of something completely intangible that I lose interest and return my focus to the world around me.

well that's fine but then i invite you not to post in this thread.

hehehe!

i did a quick scan and i'm getting cigarettes, black holes, and calvinism.

I think you are cool Autopilot...

and I understand the nausea that this conversation can create...

I don't get nauseated easily....

  glasse said:

i did a quick scan and i'm getting cigarettes, black holes, and calvinism.

That is everything, right?

Nah I get what Irari is saying. While my intended tone was more of "Ok, that's a bit too deep for me." it probably came across as "Whatever, I don't care."

Alas, the lack of body language and tone of voice in text.

  glasse said:

i did a quick scan and i'm getting cigarettes, black holes, and calvinism.

i don't believe agree with predestination but i'm still on the fence about total depravity.

  autopilot said:

Nah I get what Irari is saying. While my intended tone was more of "Ok, that's a bit too deep for me." it probably came across as "Whatever, I don't care."

 

Alas, the lack of body language and tone of voice in text.

i apologize if i offended you, i don't want you to get the wrong idea. i think you are cool too. usually we don't talk about these things on watmm... maybe we should stick to counting our boners and peeing in butts.