my inner internet has died

ok. forget everything. 420 is right. i try to force everyone into my ideas, probably to affirm my own opinion. this i admit. my problem lies in this:

i can not prove that anything exists

nothing

not even a simple concept

nothing seems to exist, and therefor if nothing exists, neither do we or anyone else or earth or the solar system or even the universe. one could state that the universe exists because one can perceive it, but what about when that individual dies? does that individual die, or does the universe die? which one? well one could argue that the universe obviously continues without one person, but that perception is only viewed by one person, and if that person died, that whole view would in itself die, so wouldnt the whole universe die without it?

no you say! ok, so then you admit there must be an objective universe outside of our minds then?! well what if every mind were to suddenly cease to exist? would the universe cease to exist as well because there would be no mind to perceive its existence. if you think it could remain without a conscious mind perceiving it, how could you possibly prove it? because there would be no conscious mind to do so in the first place, therefor, the universe must only be a product of our conscious mind, and nothing else

you just need to stop this exists/non exist/philosophy bullshit and you will be fine

ET: It doesn't really make any difference one way or the other if the universe exists or not, the rational thing to do is to assume it does because then if you are correct you will be able to live a sane, normal life. If you assume that the universe does not exist you gain nothing by being correct, so like I said it is clearly the most rational solution to just assume that everything DOES in fact exist, at least in some form, however elusive that might be

yea it takes a bit of time to get back into watmm after not coming here for a while

I had a dream last night that I invented a joke that was so funny that I had to immediately tell everyone I know, and post it on watmm. And then I woke up and realised that it was a dream, and all I was left with was this barely-interesting anecdote.

  thehauntingsoul said:

ET: It doesn't really make any difference one way or the other if the universe exists or not, the rational thing to do is to assume it does because then if you are correct you will be able to live a sane, normal life. If you assume that the universe does not exist you gain nothing by being correct, so like I said it is clearly the most rational solution to just assume that everything DOES in fact exist, at least in some form, however elusive that might be

i disagree. first of all, you say the rational thing to do is assume the universe exists. well the further i go into life the further i realize nothing exists, so this whole idea od assuming certain things exists and other things do not, is total nonsense, as any one thing can easily be disproved with enough logic. now, that alone is enough to scare any "normal" person off, and they will go right back into their thought patters of 2 + 2 = whatever they want, but if you actually look at it, you see there is nothing to really look at but yourself looking at something that doesnt exist, because the only things that exist are things that one looks at. does a tree make a sound in the forest if no one is there to hear it? well that all depends

my point is, is that i have driven myself sick in circles thinking about the existence of things and my self, and ive come to the conclusion that everything is some kind of non existent thing, and that everyone seems to be living in some sort of pseudo reality. like a loop, divided into an infinite amount of sections, and each section being a perception of a human reality. no two people are sharing the same reality, so much in fact, that any two realities are so different, that if one of the two were to go into the others reality even for a second, they would reach such a state of panic so severe that it would probably kill them, or make them insane. it is because we are all living in this world of psychological filters. filters which seem nonexistent to most, and impenetrable to the rest. i think these filters are probably good things

ive seen life with less of these filters, and i wouldnt recommend anyone ever doing such a thing, unless one was psychologically prepared. i dont know how one could do that, i imagine though that it is possible and that some are very able to do it

i guess all im saying is that everyone is very different and are living in totally different realities...so much so that to even try to describe ones reality is completely impossible

i don;t hate you OR think you are a joke, ET, even if you are.

the fact that nothing is real doesn't mean you have to go crazy thinking about it. seriously, if it's not real then why the fuck would it MEAN that you have to react to it in a certain way?

you can only learn so much by thinking, at some point you have to just force yourself to experience new things and do new things and that stuff will change your mind. fears are just propped up by thoughts and thoughts are part of this whole meaningless perception based vagueness so the opposite of them is always also true.

not trying to be overly vague or a dick, this has probably been more useful/useless to sorting my own thoughts out than to you, i think my innernet is dying too.

last poop.

I think everyone is asking these questions now and again, some go deeper, some find quicker answers, deep or shallow. But what you always need is new experience as stated before. Just thinking for longer periods of time imo bears less and less fruit. Imagine working your ass off for 15 hours a day as a slave somewhere for like 4 years. What would you be thinking then? How would you feel reality? I think there would be more and more realism to the fact that you are a physical body in a physical world, while your awareness is kinda stuck to the needs of that body...

philosophy is dumb

omg that lion is cuddling that man!!!

FFS this belongs on XLT

  zaphod said:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

lol

the best thing to do when you are having a problem is to bring everyone else down with you

its the internet, not the mafia

  zaphod said:

et is monoid from xltronic.

is that guy still on xlt?

I have to admit, I'm not getting the same vibes off of you I used to. Maybe go for a walk in the woods and come back.

  ezkerraldean said:

  zaphod said:

et is monoid from xltronic.

 

 

is that guy still on xlt?

yeah. at least, some dude called monoid recommended album by Jean-Michel on soulseek chat room and i was confused cos i was never sure if monoid was a collective or not :P

ET is the first person on earth whose mind will allow him to overcome the Matrix.

  ET said:

ok. forget everything. 420 is right. i try to force everyone into my ideas, probably to affirm my own opinion. this i admit. my problem lies in this:

 

i can not prove that anything exists

 

nothing

 

not even a simple concept

 

nothing seems to exist, and therefor if nothing exists, neither do we or anyone else or earth or the solar system or even the universe. one could state that the universe exists because one can perceive it, but what about when that individual dies? does that individual die, or does the universe die? which one? well one could argue that the universe obviously continues without one person, but that perception is only viewed by one person, and if that person died, that whole view would in itself die, so wouldnt the whole universe die without it?

 

no you say! ok, so then you admit there must be an objective universe outside of our minds then?! well what if every mind were to suddenly cease to exist? would the universe cease to exist as well because there would be no mind to perceive its existence. if you think it could remain without a conscious mind perceiving it, how could you possibly prove it? because there would be no conscious mind to do so in the first place, therefor, the universe must only be a product of our conscious mind, and nothing else

i like this post

  ET said:

my point is, is that i have driven myself sick in circles thinking about the existence of things and my self

This is my biggest point. While its all fine and dandy to be incredibly contemplative and to really try to wrap your mind around the whole idea of reality, you can also get your head really stuck up your ass in that you will never really 'know' some things, but the mind has a tendency to just pick the most likely solution and call it the truth because its alot easier for us to sit by if everything is neat and nice and laid out in our minds like that.

What I'm NOT saying is to just stop thinking about that stuff, I myself spend much of my time contemplating existence and consciousness and it can open up the doors to many incredible trains of thought, however some of them can be very unsettling.

As far as filters go, I 100% agree with you. I've done my fair share of acid and mushrooms which work by breaking down those filters, and while I have discovered alot of deeper truths about reality through this venue, I still stand by my original argument:

Whether or not all of this higher consciousness/metaphysical type of analysis of reality brings you closer to the truth, you are still doing yourself much more of a favor to think of earthly things first and philosophy second because whether you like it or not, we are physical beings with physical bodies and physical needs. Maybe we don't exist, maybe everything is an illusion, but regardless you will still die if you are shot, you will still get hungry if you don't eat.

The best way to handle it, IMO, is to just accept the cosmic weirdness of it all and accept that no matter how hard you think, there are some things about reality you will just never understand, and that you do yourself MUCH better to function in reality as if it IS in fact real, and deal with all the extra facets of reality if and when the time comes to do so.

  thehauntingsoul said:

  ET said:

my point is, is that i have driven myself sick in circles thinking about the existence of things and my self

 

This is my biggest point. While its all fine and dandy to be incredibly contemplative and to really try to wrap your mind around the whole idea of reality, you can also get your head really stuck up your ass in that you will never really 'know' some things, but the mind has a tendency to just pick the most likely solution and call it the truth because its alot easier for us to sit by if everything is neat and nice and laid out in our minds like that.

 

What I'm NOT saying is to just stop thinking about that stuff, I myself spend much of my time contemplating existence and consciousness and it can open up the doors to many incredible trains of thought, however some of them can be very unsettling.

 

As far as filters go, I 100% agree with you. I've done my fair share of acid and mushrooms which work by breaking down those filters, and while I have discovered alot of deeper truths about reality through this venue, I still stand by my original argument:

 

Whether or not all of this higher consciousness/metaphysical type of analysis of reality brings you closer to the truth, you are still doing yourself much more of a favor to think of earthly things first and philosophy second because whether you like it or not, we are physical beings with physical bodies and physical needs. Maybe we don't exist, maybe everything is an illusion, but regardless you will still die if you are shot, you will still get hungry if you don't eat.

 

The best way to handle it, IMO, is to just accept the cosmic weirdness of it all and accept that no matter how hard you think, there are some things about reality you will just never understand, and that you do yourself MUCH better to function in reality as if it IS in fact real, and deal with all the extra facets of reality if and when the time comes to do so.

or you could study, do some reading.

dualism isn't anything new.