SAW2's sound

  On 7/12/2009 at 3:53 AM, Bramsworth said:

  On 7/12/2009 at 12:09 AM, amni said:

I know the CASIO FZ1 or FZ10M were used , all that filtering in the girls voices, and the drums are FZ1 crunch. all of LFOs self titled was FZ1 too :-)

EMS VCS3 was used for the electrical ambient sounding track

Yamaha CS5 on synths

ALso lots of sampling of pan pipes slowed down

 

Nice observation. Listening to Rhubarb I guess I can see where these "flutes" get their unique sound now.Damned if I could replicate it though.

how do i know such things.

My first sampler was a Casio FZ1 and nothing sounds like its filter :-)I THINK it may have been used on I CAre, but i know 100% its on SAW2

I currently own an EMS Synthi use to own a VCS3 i i know that sound well

Here's some quotes from Mark Prendergast's "The Ambient Century" where he seems to interview Richard directly:

  Quote

During puberty he experimented with tape recorders and as he got older he added circuits and amplification. ... By the end of 1992 James was a Techno star. ... Settling in a working-class area of North London, James began building another studio made up of old EMS, Moog and ARP synths reconfigured to his own specifications. He got to know EMS's Robin Wood, who sold him various synthesizer units. "I even put a sampler/playback unit in one snth, an Oberheim Matrix (a super-analogue 1980s American creation) in order to manipulate all my samples for my live shows. Then I started customizing my own effects, making phasers, flangers and loads of filters. I even made loads of spring reverbs and put them in cardboard boxes."

The article then goes on to talk about his 1993 US tour before describing SAW2:

  Quote

James worked live to tape, all his studio hardware at arm's reach. Sleep deprivation and marijuana lent SAW2 the quality of spectral music.

BTW "The Ambient Century" is a bloody good book and well worth the £17 I paid for it.

  Quote

During puberty he experimented with tape recorders and as he got older he added circuits and amplification. ... By the end of 1992 James was a Techno star. ... Settling in a working-class area of North London, James began building another studio made up of old EMS, Moog and ARP synths reconfigured to his own specifications. He got to know EMS's Robin Wood, who sold him various synthesizer units. "I even put a sampler/playback unit in one snth, an Oberheim Matrix (a super-analogue 1980s American creation) in order to manipulate all my samples for my live shows. Then I started customizing my own effects, making phasers, flangers and loads of filters. I even made loads of spring reverbs and put them in cardboard boxes."

PR bollocks, a sampler into a Matrix6 LOL!!! :D

Same ole Richie!

yea, his early 90's interviews have the most bull

  On 7/12/2009 at 11:58 AM, amni said:

  On 7/12/2009 at 3:53 AM, Bramsworth said:

  On 7/12/2009 at 12:09 AM, amni said:

I know the CASIO FZ1 or FZ10M were used , all that filtering in the girls voices, and the drums are FZ1 crunch. all of LFOs self titled was FZ1 too :-)

EMS VCS3 was used for the electrical ambient sounding track

Yamaha CS5 on synths

ALso lots of sampling of pan pipes slowed down

 

Nice observation. Listening to Rhubarb I guess I can see where these "flutes" get their unique sound now.Damned if I could replicate it though.

 

how do i know such things.

 

My first sampler was a Casio FZ1 and nothing sounds like its filter :-)I THINK it may have been used on I CAre, but i know 100% its on SAW2

I currently own an EMS Synthi use to own a VCS3 i i know that sound well

That was my first sampler also, I had the big non-rack, keyboard one. The synthesis stuff in it as this lo-fi sound to it, really cool and kinda dirty sounding.

  On 7/12/2009 at 11:27 PM, narkeworld said:

  On 7/12/2009 at 11:58 AM, amni said:

  On 7/12/2009 at 3:53 AM, Bramsworth said:

  On 7/12/2009 at 12:09 AM, amni said:

I know the CASIO FZ1 or FZ10M were used , all that filtering in the girls voices, and the drums are FZ1 crunch. all of LFOs self titled was FZ1 too :-)

EMS VCS3 was used for the electrical ambient sounding track

Yamaha CS5 on synths

ALso lots of sampling of pan pipes slowed down

 

Nice observation. Listening to Rhubarb I guess I can see where these "flutes" get their unique sound now.Damned if I could replicate it though.

 

how do i know such things.

 

My first sampler was a Casio FZ1 and nothing sounds like its filter :-)I THINK it may have been used on I CAre, but i know 100% its on SAW2

I currently own an EMS Synthi use to own a VCS3 i i know that sound well

 

 

That was my first sampler also, I had the big non-rack, keyboard one. The synthesis stuff in it as this lo-fi sound to it, really cool and kinda dirty sounding.

It's not a synthesizer, of course but what I'm trying to say is that when you modulate sounds in FZ-1 the sound gets this weird lo-fi, dirty sound to it, not always but a fair amount of the time it does/can, I loved that sampler.

fucking hell if ur going to bullshit at least make it interesting

  On 7/13/2009 at 12:00 AM, sickboy said:

fucking hell if ur going to bullshit at least make it interesting

Huh!? I had one, what are you talking about. I gave it to my friend, Dimitri Fegadis AKA Phthalocyanine when I was in California in 2003, you can ask him about it via his myspace account.

trainspotting fan

fz-1 is a sampler AND a synthesiser

the matrix is the LEAST modifiable out of all the synths RDJ mentioned, it's all on chips, so the most you could "integrate" a sampler with it would be take the sampler's board and put it in the matrix's case (which doesnt look all that roomy).

  On 7/13/2009 at 3:22 AM, analogue wings said:

fz-1 is a sampler AND a synthesiser

 

the matrix is the LEAST modifiable out of all the synths RDJ mentioned, it's all on chips, so the most you could "integrate" a sampler with it would be take the sampler's board and put it in the matrix's case (which doesnt look all that roomy).

Yeah I think you're right now that I think about it, I think you could generate generate a sound then mess around with it, I liked to do all kinds of weird things with it (the FZ-1) but that was mostly with sampled sounds. Do you have one?

  On 7/12/2009 at 1:51 PM, futureimage said:

Here's some quotes from Mark Prendergast's "The Ambient Century" where he seems to interview Richard directly:

 

  Quote

During puberty he experimented with tape recorders and as he got older he added circuits and amplification. ... By the end of 1992 James was a Techno star. ... Settling in a working-class area of North London, James began building another studio made up of old EMS, Moog and ARP synths reconfigured to his own specifications. He got to know EMS's Robin Wood, who sold him various synthesizer units. "I even put a sampler/playback unit in one snth, an Oberheim Matrix (a super-analogue 1980s American creation) in order to manipulate all my samples for my live shows. Then I started customizing my own effects, making phasers, flangers and loads of filters. I even made loads of spring reverbs and put them in cardboard boxes."

 

The article then goes on to talk about his 1993 US tour before describing SAW2:

 

  Quote

James worked live to tape, all his studio hardware at arm's reach. Sleep deprivation and marijuana lent SAW2 the quality of spectral music.

 

BTW "The Ambient Century" is a bloody good book and well worth the £17 I paid for it.

thanks. rare contribution of actual content to the never-ending saw II debate (serious). if that's accurate, i just need to up my sleep deprivation and i can give watmm saw III (kidding)

  On 7/13/2009 at 3:22 AM, analogue wings said:

fz-1 is a sampler AND a synthesiser

 

the matrix is the LEAST modifiable out of all the synths RDJ mentioned, it's all on chips, so the most you could "integrate" a sampler with it would be take the sampler's board and put it in the matrix's case (which doesnt look all that roomy).

that's what i figured he meant -- just stuck a sampler's guts in the same case, or something. i couldn't find any pics of matrix 6 innards on google image. have you got one you've opened up? rack version looks like it might have some space. in any case, you can fit a real ghetto sampler anywhere. one of the little ones with two buttons, record and play, does 7 seconds or whatever, you put a pot on the power and it'll grunge out... build that into the matrix 6 to sample its output then grunge it over, that'd take you an evening to do.

here, go !s wattm: http://www.notbreathing.com/inthelab.html

pretty boring if that's what it was, but totally believable.

sorry for the tyopeing qualityt of this pfost as i've been drink.

I think SAWII's sound lends a lot to the way it was masterd i.e. lo-fi cassette tape.

The synth sounds sound like a bit of analogue (CS-5) mixed with a DX7 for brass sounds.

  On 7/14/2009 at 1:58 AM, soundwave said:

I think SAWII's sound lends a lot to the way it was masterd i.e. lo-fi cassette tape.

 

The synth sounds sound like a bit of analogue (CS-5) mixed with a DX7 for brass sounds.

What makes you assume it was done on lo-fi cassette? By this point Richard was using DAT tapes...

  On 7/14/2009 at 6:20 PM, Joyrex said:

  On 7/14/2009 at 1:58 AM, soundwave said:

I think SAWII's sound lends a lot to the way it was masterd i.e. lo-fi cassette tape.

 

The synth sounds sound like a bit of analogue (CS-5) mixed with a DX7 for brass sounds.

 

What makes you assume it was done on lo-fi cassette? By this point Richard was using DAT tapes...

There is nothing 'hi-fi' about SAWII's warm sound when compared to for example FSOL's Lifeforms, is it possible some of the tracks were done back when he was still mastering on C90's or perhaps multitracking on analogue tape?

this thread needs to die.

Didn't read the whole thread because it seems mostly retarded but: A basic waveform and a looped sample are in many cases COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. I would argue that a basic waveform(sine/tri, ramp/saw, square, etc) has only 1(distinct) negative and 1 positive peak, whereas a looped sample can have many. Basic waveforms only cross zero once, whereas looped samples can cross many many times withing a looping cycle. Of course it still HAS a base harmonic(the speed it is looping at) but it can also have a number of other prominent harmonics that are much stronger than the base harmonic. At a certain point samples do cross over into basic waveforms, but I think that is only when a looped sample becomes very VERY small. You can still loop it to the point where the base looping frequency of the sample is one of the strongest harmonics, but The waveform is still very complicated and nothing like a basic waveform. I guess if you wanted to get really strange you could emulate a sampled waveform using a combination of basic oscillator(probably only a saw wave would work) --> really flexible waveshaper, but still... okay, now my mind is wandering.

Okay, I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass, terminology is probably WAY off!, but still.... lol

*stabs everybody in thread*

  On 7/15/2009 at 2:40 AM, soundwave said:

  On 7/14/2009 at 6:20 PM, Joyrex said:

  On 7/14/2009 at 1:58 AM, soundwave said:

I think SAWII's sound lends a lot to the way it was masterd i.e. lo-fi cassette tape.

 

The synth sounds sound like a bit of analogue (CS-5) mixed with a DX7 for brass sounds.

 

What makes you assume it was done on lo-fi cassette? By this point Richard was using DAT tapes...

 

There is nothing 'hi-fi' about SAWII's warm sound when compared to for example FSOL's Lifeforms, is it possible some of the tracks were done back when he was still mastering on C90's or perhaps multitracking on analogue tape?

I think Richard got out of using C90s back when he was doing SAW 85-92... if anything, perhaps on a reel-to-reel like you said...

RDJ's 'process' is far more important than the gear he's using.

He could take a crap children's music toy and process it into something musical and amazing through the use of his creative process.

i don't know if he used the Studio 440 for SAW2 but it definitely played an important part in the early aggro tunes.

define process

  On 7/15/2009 at 9:50 PM, marf said:

define process

proc⋅ess

  /ˈprɒsɛs; especially Brit. ˈproʊsɛs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pros-es; especially Brit. proh-ses] Show IPA noun, plural proc⋅ess⋅es  /ˈprɒsɛsɪz, ‑əsɪz, ‑əˌsiz or, especially Brit., ˈproʊsɛs‑, ˈproʊsə‑/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pros-es-iz, ‑uh-siz, ‑uh-seez or, especially Brit., proh-ses‑, proh-suh‑] Show IPA , verb, adjective

Use process in a Sentence

–noun

1. a systematic series of actions directed to some end: to devise a process for homogenizing milk.

2. a continuous action, operation, or series of changes taking place in a definite manner: the process of decay.

3. Law.

a. the summons, mandate, or writ by which a defendant or thing is brought before court for litigation.

b. the whole course of the proceedings in an action at law.

4. Photography. photomechanical or photoengraving methods collectively.

5. Biology, Anatomy. a natural outgrowth, projection, or appendage: a process of a bone.

6. the action of going forward or on.

7. the condition of being carried on.

8. course or lapse, as of time.

9. conk 4 (defs. 1, 2).

He understands pasteurization

Not sure how relevant this is to the thread, but I had a crazy dream where SAW2's unique sound had something to do with a bunch of coloured glass spheres being boiled in a large tub of water. Maybe it has something to do with synaesthesia...?

  On 7/15/2009 at 8:29 AM, Bubba69 said:

The waveform is still very complicated and nothing like a basic waveform. I guess if you wanted to get really strange you could emulate a sampled waveform using a combination of basic oscillator(probably only a saw wave would work) --> really flexible waveshaper, but still... okay, now my mind is wandering.

 

Okay, I'm kind of just pulling this out of my ass, terminology is probably WAY off!, but still.... lol

Please go and research Fourier principles and transforms.