health care in Europe and Asia

  On 8/11/2009 at 5:54 PM, ezkerraldean said:

  On 8/11/2009 at 5:49 PM, gaarg said:

About socialism...we switched to democracy in 1991, before that Slovenia was a part of the federated Yugoslavia. And we had everything worked out, health care for everybody and everything free, and you didn't have to wait for like two years to get, say, your dentist check. Today, everything is different. Just about averyone pays for urgent checkups, because it's not taken care of, and your avarage tax payer has got some more paying to do to get his teeth fixed. I'm not sure about the rest of Europe but over here everyone says "that's America for you". lol, but it's true.

 

It gets me pretty excited whenever I hear any new story about american folk asking how we manage here. Some asked my girlfriend if we had internet here for Christ's sake... Let's compare school programs and see which is more demanding, your random Europe countries' or America's. The stories you hear, damn...

 

totally off-topic - how well do you slovenians get on with other ex-yugoslav countries?

Depends. I'm not sure about politics as I don't follow them. As for folks we travel to other ex-Yugoslavian countries all the time, have a good time and I think that generally we get along really well. There are some really terrible conflicts still among some religious and territory-based issues however. I guess it depends on where you look. I know that most of America is afraid to travel to this part of Europe (the Balcan area) because some still fear there's a war going on and dumb stuff like that and that its dangerous, but that's of course bullshit. Oh yeah, we got a small clan war with our neighbouring country, Croatia, as the politicians cant seem to solve some border issue. So there's people on both sides wanting to fuck the other sides' asses but then in holiday season we go to Croatia and they come here in large numbers and I guess it's all ok. lol. One important thing about Yugoslavia we all share is the nostalgia part. I think its common everywhere at least a little bit, and at least for those of us that were born then and experienced it.

Americans love to vote against their best interest. It's what they do best.

  On 8/11/2009 at 6:12 PM, gaarg said:

One important thing about Yugoslavia we all share is the nostalgia part. I think its common everywhere at least a little bit, and at least for those of us that were born then and experienced it.

yeah, seems a shame to me that it broke up.

i'm pretty sure i was concieved in commie yugoslavia too lol

  On 8/11/2009 at 6:50 PM, ezkerraldean said:

  On 8/11/2009 at 6:12 PM, gaarg said:

One important thing about Yugoslavia we all share is the nostalgia part. I think its common everywhere at least a little bit, and at least for those of us that were born then and experienced it.

 

yeah, seems a shame to me that it broke up.

 

i'm pretty sure i was concieved in commie yugoslavia too lol

I was commie sperm dude!

  On 8/11/2009 at 5:09 PM, ezkerraldean said:

why the fuck is america so backward?

i dont know we torture the shit out of people and make no bones about hiding it, what do you expect?

  On 8/11/2009 at 6:05 PM, theSun said:

the cable news propaganda machines are pretty much in complete control of public opinion here in the us of a. people say fox news is terrible, but they neglect that cnn and msnbc are just as fucking stupid, just not so upfront about it.

yeah you make a great point, all of these insane right wingers going to these town hall meetings shoud not be given any attention whatsoever by the mainstream media (let me emphasize that i mean truly serious and lengthy amounts of attention which as far as i can tell they have been given in spades).

CNN and msnbc and the like seem to take great pleasure in continuing the bullshit of republicans Vs democrats instead of focusing on actual news.

Dont give those people attention and they will go away, keep giving them attention daily on your news network and they will not go away. its simple math.

  On 8/11/2009 at 7:51 PM, Awepittance said:

yeah you make a great point, all of these insane right wingers going to these town hall meetings shoud not be given any attention whatsoever by the mainstream media.

"The media should only portray my side of the argument"

Come on bro, statements like this are only going to give credence to the "LOL LIBERAL MEDIA" perception a lot of right-wingers have. For whatever stupid, misinformed reason, people are turning up to these meetings. Whether it's grassroots or astroturf, whatever misinformation has whipped them into this frenzy, saying the media shouldn't cover it is like a Republican saying "the media shouldn't pay any attention to those crazy left-wingers attending anti-war demos" because guess what? Those protests were organised and fermented by political organisations too.

well it's not like they're deciding to either cover these protests or not, it has to do with how much attention they get. cnn and msnbc are portraying these people like they are in some sort of idiot majority, and fox news is portraying them as if they're right.

also there really is no talk AT ALL about how exactly congress is going to just make a UHC plan. it's either "omg let's do it!" or "omg fucking commies!", no talk about actual costs. and don't try to say we should downsize the military, because then it's you hate america.

just like everything else here, it's a pissing match between dems and reps, not much more. it's not about the issues, it's about winning. it's not about giving people the best healthcare (thru public or private means), it's about winning now and carrying that to the next election and shoving it in your opponents' face.

it's sad but that's how it is.

  On 8/11/2009 at 7:55 PM, Iain C said:

  On 8/11/2009 at 7:51 PM, Awepittance said:

yeah you make a great point, all of these insane right wingers going to these town hall meetings shoud not be given any attention whatsoever by the mainstream media.

 

"The media should only portray my side of the argument"

 

Come on bro, statements like this are only going to give credence to the "LOL LIBERAL MEDIA" perception a lot of right-wingers have. For whatever stupid, misinformed reason, people are turning up to these meetings. Whether it's grassroots or astroturf, whatever misinformation has whipped them into this frenzy, saying the media shouldn't cover it is like a Republican saying "the media shouldn't pay any attention to those crazy left-wingers attending anti-war demos" because guess what? Those protests were organised and fermented by political organisations too.

"come on bro", you must not watch very much news or haven't in a long time. Do you remember how much coverage was given to anti war protesters? basically fucking ZERO.

So to compare the two is completely inane, it seems like you are trying to force some sort of left and right false paradigm 'balance' on this subject which there is simply no comparison i am sorry.

Example: they put talking heads on frequently from the 'birther' and 'your going to euthanize my grandpa' camp on these netwokrs to have 'serious debates. THey never did this with staunchly anti war people at all on any mainstream meda news network. If they had they would be presented in a totally non serious way, you know this if you've watched any news for the past 8 years consistently. the difference here is these republicans are being presented in a serious way for the past 10 days in a row taking up large blocks of airtime

the 'lol liberal media' thing is already totally solidified in all these assholes minds anyways, do you think MSNBC really cares or worries about not seeming too liberal? they just do what the stock holders want them too, they dont give a shit about seeming too liberal or too republican unless it makes them more money at any given time.

know what's funny? most people don't even know the MS in MSNBC stands for microsoft.

  On 8/11/2009 at 8:30 PM, Awepittance said:

"come on bro", you must not watch very much news or haven't in a long time. Do you remember how much coverage was given to anti war protesters? basically fucking ZERO.

Not here it wasn't. I can't speak for your TV news because I don't live in your country, but the tone of your post was just ridonkulous.

do you live in america and/or watch american news?

edit - nevermind. i've watched foreign news and it's like "wtf where are all the explosions, special graphics that say "AMERICA = SOCIALIST?" and barbie doll reporters?"

  On 8/11/2009 at 8:33 PM, Iain C said:

  On 8/11/2009 at 8:30 PM, Awepittance said:

"come on bro", you must not watch very much news or haven't in a long time. Do you remember how much coverage was given to anti war protesters? basically fucking ZERO.

 

Not here it wasn't.

the US mainstream media is who i was specifically talking about

  On 8/11/2009 at 5:49 PM, gaarg said:

It gets me pretty excited whenever I hear any new story about american folk asking how we manage here. Some asked my girlfriend if we had internet here for Christ's sake... Let's compare school programs and see which is more demanding, your random Europe countries' or America's. The stories you hear, damn...

Well, the number of people who ask me if I was in North or South Korea teaching ESL is ridiculous.

so wait Ian C, does British media cover these right winger town hall protests and birthers? if not what perspective are you coming from to debate on this subject. sure you may have found my post 'redonkulous' or whatever the fuck you said, but you don't even watch american news and im just confused how you could characterize my post as anything without knowing how american news is.

I'd like to hear your response to my last post

America is funny.

  On 8/11/2009 at 8:37 PM, Awepittance said:

so wait Ian C, does British media cover these right winger town hall protests and birthers? if not what perspective are you coming from to debate on this subject. sure you may have found my post 'redonkulous' or whatever the fuck you said, but you don't even watch american news and im just confused how you could characterize my post as anything without knowing how american news is.

I'd like to hear your response to my last post

In case you haven't noticed, broheim, I agree with your position, I just take issue with "the mainstream media should not give these crazy people any coverage". How it's being covered might be an issue, but saying something like that just makes you sound like ONE OF THEM to this international observer. And yes, it is being covered here, largely from a perspective of complete bemusement. I'm watching the news right now. BUT NO CHANNEL FOUR SHOULD NOT BE GIVING THEM A PLATFORM THEY ARE FASCISTS AND WRONG. Whether you like it or not, it's news.

  On 8/11/2009 at 8:47 PM, Iain C said:

  On 8/11/2009 at 8:37 PM, Awepittance said:

so wait Ian C, does British media cover these right winger town hall protests and birthers? if not what perspective are you coming from to debate on this subject. sure you may have found my post 'redonkulous' or whatever the fuck you said, but you don't even watch american news and im just confused how you could characterize my post as anything without knowing how american news is.

I'd like to hear your response to my last post

 

In case you haven't noticed, broheim, I agree with your position, I just take issue with "the mainstream media should not give these crazy people any coverage". How it's being covered might be an issue, but saying something like that just makes you sound like ONE OF THEM to this international observer. And yes, it is being covered here, largely from a perspective of complete bemusement. I'm watching the news right now. BUT NO CHANNEL FOUR SHOULD NOT BE GIVING THEM A PLATFORM THEY ARE FASCISTS AND WRONG. Whether you like it or not, it's news.

well i think if you were coming from an american perspective you would feel different, because its not from a perspective of bemusement, its being taken shockingly seriously by a large portion of CNN, MSNBC and fox news brodcasting time.

btw: Black moth super rainbow free festival stealing was not 'ill thought out', its true

yeah i don't think you really get a feel for it until your coworkers and other people are starting to echo what's played on the 24/7 news, and i think that only happens in america.

it's a joke to the world, but it's fucking scary from here

edit - it's as if goebbels is running the news channels

last time i went to the doctor he stuck his finger up my arse. and it was free!

I secretly know its not like what I asked in the original question, but there are no stupid questions and I wanted to stimulate responses to see what people say to what is being said in the media about the arguments against NHC

  On 8/11/2009 at 10:34 PM, marf said:

I secretly know its not like what I asked in the original question, but there are no stupid questions and I wanted to stimulate responses to see what people say to what is being said in the media about the arguments against NHC

"It was a social experiment"

LOL

  On 8/11/2009 at 6:05 PM, theSun said:

the cable news propaganda machines are pretty much in complete control of public opinion here in the us of a. people say fox news is terrible, but they neglect that cnn and msnbc are just as fucking stupid, just not so upfront about it.

 

a lot of the dissent from americans comes from the opinion that any government program is overreaching, slow reacting, and burdensome. they completely fucked up social security, there's no way anyone under 40 is going to see a penny of that shit, no matter how much they pay in, it's basically just a tax now. and just look how they're addressing the recession, "let's throw more money at all these private entities and continue to not regulate them! then when the companies fail again the government can give them a few more hundred billion in interest free loans! hooray capitalism!"

 

i would guess that at least 95% of americans (no joke) have no idea what cognitive dissonance is.

This is a problem. Im a democrat and I like the idea of democratic socialism. Im just not sure the American government has the ability to be very good at emulating an efficient European model. There is a huge lack of common sense with the way the american gov is managed. I hope we get NHC, but maybe we will also get a lot of citizens complaining and fine tune it to something that works

So, it seems that a change is required in the NHC in the US. I don't know that first hand, that's what I hear. It's generally accepted that the best way for health care to succeed is by prevention rather than treatment, and that's part of what the current administration is offering. Some other things include allowing generic medicines rather than brand names into the market, including from overseas. These are in the link posted above.

If you're moving on to the way it is portrayed in the media (sides opposing one another - rather than looking at the issues), then a while back I made a post about this which is a definitely a worthwhile read: http://forum.watmm.com/topic/46807-flat-earth-news/page__p__1072802__fromsearch__1entry1072802

Then this becomes news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health

I assume most all right wingers are Christians. What I don't understand is Jesus' thing was giving out free health care to people by healing them. Thats all he cared about. Healing sick people. They should read the bible more I guess