Switzerland votes to ban Mosque Towers

  On 11/30/2009 at 2:41 PM, Conor74 said:

You have made yourself abundantly clear. You like his version of intolerance...

yes, i´m very intolerant when it comes to the point of islamisation of western countries. there is nothing to gain from an islamic influence. nothing.

  On 11/30/2009 at 2:41 PM, panz0r said:

i just really think, that it is more important to conserve the western values...than to let a violent and dangerous culture influence our societies.

From the Crusades right up to WWI, WWII and now levelling Iraq, I don't think our western values allow us to talk about Muslims 'violent and dangerous culture'.

Unless again you are joking. You must be. You cannot be typing this stuff and keeping a straight face surely?

i´m not joking. why should i?

one question for you. i would really appreciate if you would answer me that: do you think the muslims would tolerate you, your way of life, your religion (or no-religion) once they are no longer a majority in your country? would they be as tolerant towards you as you are now towards them?

  On 11/30/2009 at 2:57 PM, panz0r said:

one question for you. i would really appreciate if you would answer me that: do you think the muslims would tolerate you, your way of life, your religion (or no-religion) once they are no longer a majority in your country? would they be as tolerant towards you as you are now towards them?

I have no idea. But I know one thing. I do not trust scare mongering. If we were here in 1945 and I had said 'the Germans will be the power brokers in Europe in 60 years, do you think they will tolerate you, your way of life, your religion etc.' to another poster I know what the answer would have been. Attitudes change.

good riddance

it's not a question of muslims specifically, it's a question of minority groups remaining unincorporated into a larger culture. so because of their unincorporation, and perceived hostility, they look inwards and turn into nutters. much like the jews in shtetls and ghettos in pre-war eastern europe. the difference is, violence against jews was pretty much one-way. modern muslims in the new ghettos of europe feel supported by muslims elsewhere in the world and so are less afraid to fight too. shit like that. and in that case it has parallels with the black-white riots we used to have in britain, before muslims became the third jews.

but yeah, taking your religion literally is also an exclusively bad thing. don't do it. extremist muslims are cunts, and there are quite a few of them.

i'm a bit drunk lol, does that shit make sense

  On 11/30/2009 at 4:49 PM, ezkerraldean said:

it's not a question of muslims specifically, it's a question of minority groups remaining unincorporated into a larger culture. so because of their unincorporation, and perceived hostility, they look inwards and turn into nutters. much like the jews in shtetls and ghettos in pre-war eastern europe. the difference is, violence against jews was pretty much one-way. modern muslims in the new ghettos of europe feel supported by muslims elsewhere in the world and so are less afraid to fight too. shit like that. and in that case it has parallels with the black-white riots we used to have in britain, before muslims became the third jews.

 

but yeah, taking your religion literally is also an exclusively bad thing. don't do it. extremist muslims are cunts, and there are quite a few of them.

 

i'm a bit drunk lol, does that shit make sense

yeah it totally does

the ghetto similarity today to the ghettos back in the time before WW2 is quite frightening

first put them into a ghetto then take away their freedom of speech and religion and then ...

fageddaboudit

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:41 PM, panz0r said:

we should not tolerate intolerance.

haha

  On 11/30/2009 at 4:06 AM, xxx said:

Didn't Koln do something similar recently? I thought that there was a proposed minaret construction near the very famous cathedral that Koln is known for. The minaret would not only become part of Koln's city scape, it's height would exceed the cathedral's so it was voted down.

That Cathedral is on Unesco's world heritage list, changing the appearance of the Cathedral or its direct surroundings could get it taken off.

Not every vote against a Mosque with a Minaret is a vote against Muslims.

And besides it's completely different to disallow the erection of one Minaret opposed to completely outlawing the construction of any new ones.

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:37 PM, Conor74 said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:25 PM, Hoodie said:

but it could happen that the immigrant population would take over the native population in some european countries because they do have a higher birth rate.

 

And is that not part of the natural rise and fall of populations and changes in demographics that has happened throughout history? Like

did i say it wasn't natural? no. i said it was happening and it's stupid to deny that it is for the sake of political correctness.

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:37 PM, Conor74 said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:25 PM, Hoodie said:

it's also happening in the united states.

 

You mean white settlers are killing off the native population? Or is the country being swamped by European immigrants from Italy and Ireland and Poland? Or are you referring to another change?

those are both interesting examples. however, i'm not sure if the native population of those times reached the fourth stage of demographic transition where the birth rate and death rate even out (probably not). that's the context in which i'm familiar with the situation i spoke of, which is occurring now in the united states. we have massive amounts of immigration in and the birth rate of the native population (anyone that's been american for a few generations, i'd say) is way down.

also, it's a non-violent transition. the native population of early america was killed by white settlers through disease and fighting, not "out-reproduced."

and with the european immigrants... i think there's still a large amount of protestant americans left here, descendant from original settlers. not a good example.

also, japan is interesting. they have a super strict immigration policy and a negative birth rate (or close to it, i think). we'll see if there will be japanese around in japan in the next century or two versus germans left in germany.

We need smaller populations, the ones with the burden of over breeding will just end up with more mouths to feed. fucking simple innit.

plus on the water issue from the sydneysider, where do you expect we put the dams then, to get a regular water supply ? New Zealand !! come on man, that's just the pointless science will save us argument that i pointed to. If there were places we could build reservoirs, that would bring online meaningful helpings of water, we would have done it by now. At the moment we're hopelessly scrambling around for a scrap here and there. Like the traverston travesty in brisbane, it wasn't just the lung fish that halted construction for. The whole project was a white elephant and the state government knew it, but was in a bind as they'd promised to construct the thing. Building up the hopes of those in the south east that had suffered for a year on quite harsh water restrictions. So peter garret came along and gave our premier an out.

So now we're stuck with desalination plants as the only option, heh. anyway the main point is that these types of things will become more acute if we allow the population increase, trust me. You might not see it as it rains a little more in sydney.

Also to your idea that people should not be allowed to move to the major centres !! How on earth will you stop that. All the migrants have free will and there is no law forcing them to inhabit only the margins. Margins which have similar resource issues to the major centres.

-sie-

  On 11/30/2009 at 6:33 PM, keltoi said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:41 PM, panz0r said:

we should not tolerate intolerance.

 

haha

what´s so funny dimwit? educate yourself or stfu.

  On 11/30/2009 at 4:49 PM, ezkerraldean said:

it's not a question of muslims specifically, it's a question of minority groups remaining unincorporated into a larger culture. so because of their unincorporation, and perceived hostility, they look inwards and turn into nutters.

that´s of course true. BUT: why is it, that only arabs, persians and turks are the ones living in "ghettos" and are unable and/ or unwillig to integrate in the society they are living in? why are mostly those people the ones benifitting from the social security without paying into the system? why is the crime-rate amongst those people so extremly high? we don´t have these problems with eastern european, african or asian foreigners. that´s the situation here in germany.

  On 11/30/2009 at 6:02 PM, o00o said:

the ghetto similarity today to the ghettos back in the time before WW2 is quite frightening

 

first put them into a ghetto then take away their freedom of speech and religion and then ...

actually there is no similarity, and your sencond sentence didn´t make any sense. wtf are you talking about?

people were forced to live in ghettos in ww2, but the muslim-immigrants in germany today (and it won´t be that different in the netherlands, scandinavia, CH/A and even in the uk) chose to live in their own "ghettos". they go to see their own doctors, lawyers, they mostly don´t have german friends etc. they are poor because they don´t care about education. it´s totally different with other immigrants.

  On 11/30/2009 at 10:52 PM, panz0r said:

 

  On 11/30/2009 at 4:49 PM, ezkerraldean said:

it's not a question of muslims specifically, it's a question of minority groups remaining unincorporated into a larger culture. so because of their unincorporation, and perceived hostility, they look inwards and turn into nutters.

 

that´s of course true. BUT: why is it, that only arabs, persians and turks are the ones living in "ghettos" and are unable and/ or unwillig to integrate in the society they are living in? why are mostly those people the ones benifitting from the social security without paying into the system? why is the crime-rate amongst those people so extremly high? we don´t have these problems with eastern european, african or asian foreigners. that´s the situation here in germany.

 

they're not the only ones. i guess that's cos they're the only minority you get in germany. we still have other ghettos. there's a somali ghetto close to me, and a polish ghetto in the other direction, innit. and as for welfare state scroungers, it's white trash who are most notorious for that here. pakistanis are probably the most ghettoised here, i'd say. and that's probably because they're the most numerous - there's enough of them now to support a self-contained society, so there's no need to integrate. it's rapid growth of an expatriate community that causes shit. as long as immigration is small-scale, or slow, then people get integrated happily (unless the locals are xenophobic twats)

Sigh. I read these types of threads pretty thoroughly and would like to give some sort of intelligent and well reasoned response but by the end of it I realise that I just want the world to tear itself apart. The motivation of the people destroying the planet (not muslims - just violent, manipulative, shitty people of humanity in general) is far greater than anyone who wants a peaceful planet with freedom of religion. They have more incentive in their minds. The people who get in power are never benevolent, they got there out of sheer greed and aggressiveness - no way are they ever passive, nice people. They're highly ambitious and that's more often than not a negative trait.

Fucking people will kill themselves in the end. In the meantime I'm going to sit back and comment on it on a music discussion board and enjoy a good burger every once in a while. Happy trails.

it's also a quality of life thing mesh gear, we don't have unlimited space and i don't want to see the strip of green along our east coast turned into one 30 k wide urban development ... not to mention the impacts on the nature of the place ...

i don't understand the underlying mechanism behind the unthinking support for the notion of continued hurried immigration into australia .. because when i reason it out it makes no logical sense on every level .. obviously though there must be something driving the consensus opinion amongst my fellow countrymen .. some urge that i can't just fathom and rationalize ..

also thanks for allowing me to argue this without letting my points get you emotional .. thinking that they are personal attacks .. i appreciate that ;-]

  On 11/30/2009 at 10:52 PM, panz0r said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 6:33 PM, keltoi said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:41 PM, panz0r said:

we should not tolerate intolerance.

 

haha

 

what´s so funny dimwit? educate yourself or stfu.

 

  On 11/30/2009 at 4:49 PM, ezkerraldean said:

it's not a question of muslims specifically, it's a question of minority groups remaining unincorporated into a larger culture. so because of their unincorporation, and perceived hostility, they look inwards and turn into nutters.

 

that´s of course true. BUT: why is it, that only arabs, persians and turks are the ones living in "ghettos" and are unable and/ or unwillig to integrate in the society they are living in? why are mostly those people the ones benifitting from the social security without paying into the system? why is the crime-rate amongst those people so extremly high? we don´t have these problems with eastern european, african or asian foreigners. that´s the situation here in germany.

 

 

Here in Portugal it's the same except it's with blacks, you shouldn't reduce to a single group, whenever a mass group of third-worlders migrates to another country we'll be seeing the same shit over and over again, it's a clash of cultures. I'm not against immigration but I can't see the benefits of mass immigration, specially with today's economy.

  On 11/30/2009 at 10:52 PM, panz0r said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 6:33 PM, keltoi said:

  On 11/30/2009 at 12:41 PM, panz0r said:

we should not tolerate intolerance.

 

haha

 

what´s so funny dimwit? educate yourself or stfu.

In fairness, it was fairly funny!

  On 11/30/2009 at 10:52 PM, panz0r said:

why are mostly those people the ones benifitting from the social security without paying into the system? why is the crime-rate amongst those people so extremly high? we don´t have these problems with eastern european, african or asian foreigners. that´s the situation here in germany.

We have the same problem in Ireland with lots of British, Germans, Dutch etc. who sponge off our social welfare and commit crime. They are called "hippies" - and I'd say there's not a Muslim among them. Crime rate higher, particularly drugs offences and the odd murder when krusties fall out. But you know what, live and let live, a heck of a lot of Irish live off welfare systems abroad, some of those people are my friends (hippies, not murderers), and they have integrated pretty damn well...for people who don't want to integrate into society at all! You won't find me running around saying the sky has fallen in and they are taking over with their crime and filth.

  On 12/1/2009 at 10:01 AM, Conor74 said:

live and let live

that´s what you say. no what they will say once they are no longer a majority.

*minority

oops! minority, of course. thanks kokoon

  On 12/1/2009 at 12:18 PM, panz0r said:

  On 12/1/2009 at 10:01 AM, Conor74 said:

live and let live

 

that´s what you say. no what they will say once they are no longer a majority.

Never mind your predictions about what will definitely happen in race relations over the next few generations.

Can you just give me next weekends football scores?

panz0r, you are a rascist, unpleasant fuck.

  On 12/1/2009 at 3:47 PM, messiaen said:

panz0r, you are a rascist, unpleasant fuck.

its a religion not a race though lol